Politics

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Are you suggesting the BBC six o clock news fact checks every politicians spin? They wouldn't have time to shit man.

 

I'm sure you understand the difference between spin and "bare face lies".

[ChezGiven 0]

 

 

Thinking more of the rating agencies who decide what % we all borrow at.

 

I'm sure you understand that the vast repayments we make as a country would be seriously hit if the markets wernt confident.

 

Extra billions on higher interest rates would have to be cut from somewhere else in the public purse. (Something that directly effects us all, not just the middle classes).

Austerity cuts don't make them more confident in us, that's been proven already.

 

It's bond traders who determine the rate we borrow at, not ratings agencies. We'd be borrowing less if Osborne had focussed on the economy rather than the accounts. Worst chancellor in living memory.

[Meenzer 15518]

Did anyone catch Danny Alexander on C4 news last night? Despite having his Labour equivalent sitting right beside him he refused to debate or interact with her in any way. Once again Gideon sent out the underling to take the flak on live TV.

 

 

Simplistic lo-fi guitar music as protest tool. We really are back in the 80s.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3887]

 

 

Bare faced lying in Parliament is quite a serious thing. I'm sure it will get to the 6 o clock news eventually.

 

Bare faced lying in Parliament is de rigeur

[ewerk 30569]

Thinking more of the rating agencies who decide what % we all borrow at.

 

I'm sure you understand that the vast repayments we make as a country would be seriously hit if the markets wernt confident.

 

Extra billions on higher interest rates would have to be cut from somewhere else in the public purse. (Something that directly effects us all, not just the middle classes).

 

That'll be why Fitch are saying that the UK are at risk of having their rating downgraded then.

[Renton 21589]

 

 

Like you, I'm not really sure how anyone can really judge his / their performance considering the disaster they are trying to repair is pretty unique.

 

No one will ever be happy with the bit of austerity that effects them.

 

Probably the most unbiased observers are the markets who lend us money and decide whether we are a good risk or not.

 

One certainty however is that Labour do have a track record for fucking up the country's finances.

 

I would certainly dread to think what would happen if the idiots making up the current Labour front bench got in. Be like having the country run by the cast of rainbow.

 

I also know that it's a waste of time discussing this in here because so many are completely entrenched one way or the other.

 

There's no-one more entrenched in your views than you though, despite your ridiculous claims that you're neutral regarding this.

 

You've been proven wrong in this argument, face it. Perhaps a downgrading of our economy (which now looks likely) might get you to admit this, but I doubt it. But you're right, pointless arguing with someone who wont face the reality of the situation we're in.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

That'll be why Fitch are saying that the UK are at risk of having their rating downgraded then.

 

We are always at risk, but there is no denying the excellent position we are in, particularly when we have countries all around us being hammered by high interest rates. I even read somewhere last week that we can now borrow less than Germany ffs.

[Renton 21589]

 

 

We are always at risk, but there is no denying the excellent position we are in, particularly when we have countries all around us being hammered by high interest rates. I even read somewhere last week that we can now borrow less than Germany ffs.

 

Seriously, what Fucking planet are you on.

 

You must be doing your wum act now. It's not remotely funny.

[Gemmill 44811]

why do people allow themselves to get wound up by this? Either he's on the wind up or he's crushingly stupid. Either way just ignore it or laugh at how idiotic he is.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Seriously, what Fucking planet are you on.

 

You must be doing your wum act now. It's not remotely funny.

 

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

[ewerk 30569]

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

 

We can't.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

We can't.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15869094

 

The UK government's implied cost of borrowing has dropped below Germany's for the first time in 2.5 years.

 

If the UK was to borrow for 10 years today, it would pay an interest rate of 2.21%. Germany would pay 2.23%.

[Renton 21589]

 

 

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

 

I don't think we are in an excellent position. Nobody does, not even Gideon. If you do, its obvious you understand nothing regarding the terrible shape of our economy. Know you have no understanding of the importance of economic growth, without which we're fucked basically.

[Renton 21589]

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15869094

 

A year out of date.

[Matt 0]

Thinking more of the rating agencies who decide what % we all borrow at.

 

I'm sure you understand that the vast repayments we make as a country would be seriously hit if the markets wernt confident.

 

Extra billions on higher interest rates would have to be cut from somewhere else in the public purse. (Something that directly effects us all, not just the middle classes).

 

Rhetoric swallowed good and proper. Rating agencies do not decide at what rate investors will lend to sovereigns, they simply give a view on their credit risk. Ultimately yield is a function of demand and supply and if there aren't many AAAs left then the money has to go to the next best place.

 

What happened when the US lost its AAA ratings? Its rates went LOWER. Because it is such a big issuer there simply wasn't anywhere else to go and it followed the downward pressure of relative safe havens (as seen with negative bund yields)

 

We're in a historic low-rate environment. It's actually the best time for the DMO to issue debt in decades. And don't think that austerity measures are seen as good by investors and spending seen as bad- it's not that simple. That debt has to be repaid some day, which will need productivity and tax revenues to support it- not a moribund zombie economy trying to print its way out of trouble.

[Matt 0]

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

 

So why are you advocating a policy of shunning all that cheap money in favour of grinding people into the dirt?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I don't think we are in an excellent position. Nobody does, not even Gideon. If you do, its obvious you understand nothing regarding the terrible shape of our economy. Know you have no understanding of the importance of economic growth, without which we're fucked basically.

 

I didnt say we were in an overall excellent position, I was referring to the uk borrowing rates which are excellent. Maybe you should read a bit before jumping in or stick to your own advice and avoid discussion.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Rhetoric swallowed good and proper. Rating agencies do not decide at what rate investors will lend to sovereigns, they simply give a view on their credit risk. Ultimately yield is a function of demand and supply and if there aren't many AAAs left then the money has to go to the next best place.

 

What happened when the US lost its AAA ratings? Its rates went LOWER. Because it is such a big issuer there simply wasn't anywhere else to go and it followed the downward pressure of relative safe havens (as seen with negative bund yields)

 

We're in a historic low-rate environment. It's actually the best time for the DMO to issue debt in decades. And don't think that austerity measures are seen as good by investors and spending seen as bad- it's not that simple. That debt has to be repaid some day, which will need productivity and tax revenues to support it- not a moribund zombie economy trying to print its way out of trouble.

 

Matt, Im sure people like yourself and Chez who work in and around financial markets can talk better about world wide finance, but the point I was making was that being able to borrow at very low levels is currently good for us as compared to the likes of Italy, greece etc

 

I agree with you about the effect of being downgraded by an agency but you just wait and see what happens on here if it happens

[Christmas Tree 4725]

So why are you advocating a policy of shunning all that cheap money in favour of grinding people into the dirt?

 

I think the problem with the economy is the banks not lending. How that problem is solved seems to be the most important decision on the agenda.

[ewerk 30569]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-15869094

 

You realise that these rates are fluid?

 

The fact that the UK can borrow at reasonably low rates is partly to do with the fact that the Eurozone is still in crisis and the money has to go somewhere. It isn't a ringing endorsement of the UK economy.

[Renton 21589]

 

 

I didnt say we were in an overall excellent position, I was referring to the uk borrowing rates which are excellent. Maybe you should read a bit before jumping in or stick to your own advice and avoid discussion.

 

No, you could read your post in more than one way. I was reading it in the context of your other posts, where everything in CT La La land is hunky dory.

[Matt 0]

I think the problem with the economy is the banks not lending. How that problem is solved seems to be the most important decision on the agenda.

 

Merv disagrees. He thinks banks are still overlent.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20540693

[Christmas Tree 4725]

No, you could read your post in more than one way. I was reading it in the context of your other posts, where everything in CT La La land is hunky dory.

 

Its just mint how you and a few others, supposedly well educated decent folk, cant get involved in a discussion without coming in straight in like screaming little girl. Do you act this way in real life or do you live in Stepford?

 

If you just want to hear your own opinion then grab the Guardian and read, while nodding approvingly in front of a mirror.

 

Its a great shame that a thread which effects all of us is so little used, simply because a few tossers cant show a bit of self control and always spoil it for anyone who does want to discuss politics.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Merv disagrees. He thinks banks are still overlent.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-20540693

 

I think if you listen to most small business owbers, the people who actually drive the economy, they will disagree with Merv.

[Matt 0]

Do you remember that Carlsberg advert, 'if carlsberg did banks'? That's what most small businesses want, lots of cheap money, no questions asked, and if it all goes tits up, well never mind, that's life eh. Set up again as Little co (2012) Ltd and everything is tip-top. At least that's what I found when I worked for one and with plenty others.

 

We've had an over-reliance on easy credit, no more so than in high-risk SMEs. What we are lacking is more equity or equity-like funding, which is not something banks would generally be involved in.

 

Anyway, King's point is that there is little capacity to be expanding lending, whether people are asking for it or not.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Matt