Alex 35095 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Corbyn isn't hard left, man. He's standing more or less slap bang in the middle of where the centreground should be. Before the markets hijacked it. It shows how fucked up things have become that he's considered to be 'hard left' by many Labour supporters (and the PLP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Globalists in crisis Nice pivot. You think the elite conspires but fails to win, not exactly a powerful elite if they don't control anything Anyway as much as it was impossible for Obama to live up to his hype I think it will be equally impossible for Trump to live up to his reputation. 'Hilary the elephant packed her trunk And said goodbye to the circus Off she went with a Trumpety Trump Trump Trump Trump!!' Maybe the elite wanted Trump and Brexit. Have you considered that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Globalists in crisis Nice pivot. You think the elite conspires but fails to win, not exactly a powerful elite if they don't control anything Anyway as much as it was impossible for Obama to live up to his hype I think it will be equally impossible for Trump to live up to his reputation. 'Hilary the elephant packed her trunk And said goodbye to the circus Off she went with a Trumpety Trump Trump Trump Trump!!' Absolutely true. Really do wonder what he will be able to get done from his list of policies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Globalists in crisis Nice pivot. You think the elite conspires but fails to win, not exactly a powerful elite if they don't control anything Anyway as much as it was impossible for Obama to live up to his hype I think it will be equally impossible for Trump to live up to his reputation. 'Hilary the elephant packed her trunk And said goodbye to the circus Off she went with a Trumpety Trump Trump Trump Trump!!' Yeah the elite don't conspire and they don't control anything. The neo-Liberals and Globalists have exerted hegemony spanning three decades via chinese crackers. The 1,500 lobbyists are playing bridge all day at the EU parliament....Clinton got 500 million for pantsuits... 12,000 odd NGO's are embedded just doing good things and holding hands... Edited November 9, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Lying Ted Cruise Low energy Jeb Bush 'Little' Marco Rubio Crooked Hilary....All killshots. Don't forget Dopey Sugar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Maybe the elite wanted Trump and Brexit. Have you considered that? It's a possibility but don't tell HF as that would ruin Wikileaks for himz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I think the argument would be that the elites' handle on power was not all encompassing, but done through media sleight of hand and voting systems that more or less restrict people's options in terms of who to have represent them. FPTP in a two party system, etc. There has always been a remote chance for something like this - and maybe there had to be for people to buy into it - but the eventuality we have experienced was considered highly improbable. It's also not really a conspiracy, at least not in my mind. It's a group of people so wedded to their market theories that they can't see all those being left behind, and the populist anger this is causing. They need to adapt and change, but have refused to do so - likely fuelled by the fact that they would personally lose out. Edited November 9, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Clinton currently winning the popular vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Clinton currently winning the popular vote. It's incredibly close, isn't it... less than 100,000 people in it, presently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yeah the elite don't conspire and they don't control anything. The neo-Liberals and Globalists have exerted hegemony spanning three decades via chinese crackers. They don't control the world anyway. Not going to let this one go, there is no super elite controlling anything. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's a possibility but don't tell HF as that would ruin Wikileaks for himz Wikileaks had almost nothing to do with the result. The BBC doesn't even mention them in their top 5 reasons Trump won piece... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37918303 A lot of people in the upper quintiles economically struggle to grasp why people who have almost nothing and see it getting taken from them might vote against their own interests as long as it harms those in the upper echelons. I can see why they can't fathom it and try to blame a twitter account with one tenth of the followers of Kim Kardashian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Wikileaks had almost nothing to do with the result. The BBC doesn't even mention them in their top 5 reasons Trump won piece... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37918303 A lot of people in the upper quintiles economically struggle to grasp why people who have almost nothing and see it getting taken from them might vote against their own interests as long as it harms those in the upper echelons. I can see why they can't fathom it and try to blame a twitter account with one tenth of the followers of Kim Kardashian. Well said. The ignorance and willful refusal to see the problems is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I think the argument would be that the elites' handle on power was not all encompassing, but done through media sleight of hand and voting systems that more or less restrict people's options in terms of who to have represent them. FPTP in a two party system, etc. There has always been a remote chance for something like this - and maybe there had to be for people to buy into it - but the eventuality we have experienced was considered highly improbable. It's also not really a conspiracy, at least not in my mind. It's a group of people so wedded to their market theories that they can't see all those being left behind, and the populist anger this is causing. They need to adapt and change, but have refused to do so - likely fuelled by the fact that they would personally lose out. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Wikileaks had almost nothing to do with the result. The BBC doesn't even mention them in their top 5 reasons Trump won piece... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37918303 A lot of people in the upper quintiles economically struggle to grasp why people who have almost nothing and see it getting taken from them might vote against their own interests as long as it harms those in the upper echelons. I can see why they can't fathom it and try to blame a twitter account with one tenth of the followers of Kim Kardashian. I strongly disagree, the leak plus Comey's announcement strongly reinforced the narrative that Trump was trying to push that Clinton couldn't be trusted. Even if that wasn't what the leak actually said it was what a lot of floating voters took away. It's interesting that an awful lot of Trump voters only made up their mind in the last month when the Podesta emails and FBI investigation were going on. It could have made the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I think the argument would be that the elites' handle on power was not all encompassing, but done through media sleight of hand and voting systems that more or less restrict people's options in terms of who to have represent them. FPTP in a two party system, etc. There has always been a remote chance for something like this - and maybe there had to be for people to buy into it - but the eventuality we have experienced was considered highly improbable. It's also not really a conspiracy, at least not in my mind. It's a group of people so wedded to their market theories that they can't see all those being left behind, and the populist anger this is causing. They need to adapt and change, but have refused to do so - likely fuelled by the fact that they would personally lose out. Who are this group of people? Honestly, this is crackerjack nonsense. It's not how the world works. The elite can't learn anything about this because they don't exist as a distinct entity. Wtf is Trump now if not an elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Don't forget Dopey Sugar... Lyin Ted.... "Where's your Goldman Sachs jacket? We know your wife works there...."... Edited November 9, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 They don't control the world anyway. Not going to let this one go, there is no super elite controlling anything. Case closed. You would say that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Who are this group of people? Honestly, this is crackerjack nonsense. It's not how the world works. The elite can't learn anything about this because they don't exist as a distinct entity. Wtf is Trump now if not an elite? I don't know them all personally, but I think the argument could be made that all people who 'do well' out of the current set up are the elites. As I've said a few times, those people (and you and I might be among them) are now outnumbered. Therefore, we need a system that works for the majority once again. To take a slightly more direct view, Thatcher, Reagan, Blair, Clinton(s) - most of the politicians we've lived under, have been Neoliberals. Do you want me to post that article again? And yes, Trump is an elite. But he appears to be presenting himself as a turncoat elite - someone outside of the political establishment as well. If you think it's crackerjack nonsense then fair enough. I guess you'd argue that despite all the negative media coverage, the people who voted Trump in are just idiots? That will be the prevailing opinion in the establishment I think, so let's see where it leads us. I think we'll lose France for certain, to right wing xenophobia - maybe then we can revisit why this is happening. Edited November 9, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 I strongly disagree, the leak plus Comey's announcement strongly reinforced the narrative that Trump was trying to push that Clinton couldn't be trusted. Even if that wasn't what the leak actually said it was what a lot of floating voters took away. It's interesting that an awful lot of Trump voters only made up their mind in the last month when the Podesta emails and FBI investigation were going on. It could have made the difference. only 12% decided over the past week or in the last few days. This suggests that the recent revelations of the FBI reopening and then closing its investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails and Donald Trump's "locker room" talk and accusations of inappropriate sexual behavior did not have much impact on Americans as they went to the polls. The economy remains the most important issue for majority of voters, but Americans were about evenly split on which candidate would better handle the economy. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/08/politics/first-exit-polls-2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Fucking hell it actually happened, lots of pussy grabbing all round today. They're saying the people that it probably mattered most to didn't really get out and vote for her but I don't think it's that simple, this is a woman that lost to a major outsider in Obama, she was pushed close by another outsider in Sanders and now has lost to yet another major outsider in Trump, this is the fault of the DNC for constantly trying to force her into presidency. The media are already trying to spin this btw, there's a bloke on CNN saying he could be the next Teddy Roosevelt where was that voice 2 days ago when a Trump win meant Armageddon? For what it's worth he'll be absolutely fuck all like we've seen in regards to his offensiveness and brashness imo. It's all part of this sweeping tide of people being tired of the 'establishment', I have a lass on facebook who wrote some insane rant about how "if you're a white, cis, straight, especially a male person, this election isn't for you" then followed about 4 paragraphs of shite like that and I said to my wife at the time it's nonsense like that that fire this people who vote for Trump up, she said it doesn't matter as most people would just shrug that off but I don't think they do, I think a lot of people are tired of hearing stuff like that, it's this backlash of people who have been told that it's not about them anymore. I'm not part of it of course but I have actually been frustrated by someone else putting down any fear or difficulty I have by saying something along the line of "oh it must be hard being a straight, white, male" etc, while that's a minor irritation to me and I can accept that it's just that person trying to be funny there are a lot of people out there that are clearly tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Fucking hell it actually happened, lots of pussy grabbing all round today. They're saying the people that it probably mattered most to didn't really get out and vote for her but I don't think it's that simple, this is a woman that lost to a major outsider in Obama, she was pushed close by another outsider in Sanders and now has lost to yet another major outsider in Trump, this is the fault of the DNC for constantly trying to force her into presidency. The media are already trying to spin this btw, there's a bloke on CNN saying he could be the next Teddy Roosevelt where was that voice 2 days ago when a Trump win meant Armageddon? For what it's worth he'll be absolutely fuck all like we've seen in regards to his offensiveness and brashness imo. It's all part of this sweeping tide of people being tired of the 'establishment', I have a lass on facebook who wrote some insane rant about how "if you're a white, cis, straight, especially a male person, this election isn't for you" then followed about 4 paragraphs of shite like that and I said to my wife at the time it's nonsense like that that fire this people who vote for Trump up, she said it doesn't matter as most people would just shrug that off but I don't think they do, I think a lot of people are tired of hearing stuff like that, it's this backlash of people who have been told that it's not about them anymore. I'm not part of it of course but I have actually been frustrated by someone else putting down any fear or difficulty I have by saying something along the line of "oh it must be hard being a straight, white, male" etc, while that's a minor irritation to me and I can accept that it's just that person trying to be funny there are a lot of people out there that are clearly tired of it. Absolutely true, I think a lot of it is that. That's where identity politics has brought us low in amongst everything else. God this is annoying. We have a centreground full of market adoring fuckwits and a left full of identity politics riven navel gazers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I don't know them all personally, but I think the argument could be made that all people who 'do well' out of the current set up are the elites. As I've said a few times, those people (and you and I might be among them) are now outnumbered. Therefore, we need a system that works for the majority once again. To take a slightly more direct view, Thatcher, Reagan, Blair, Clinton(s) - most of the politicians we've lived under, have been Neoliberals. Do you want me to post that article again? And yes, Trump is an elite. But he appears to be presenting himself as a turncoat elite - someone outside of the political establishment as well. If you think it's crackerjack nonsense then fair enough. I guess you'd argue that despite all the negative media coverage, the people who voted Trump in are just idiots? That will be the prevailing opinion in the establishment I think, so let's see where it leads us. I think we'll lose France for certain, to right wing xenophobia - maybe then we can revisit why this is happening. I've stated several times I believe the issues that caused this clusterfuck are the adverse effects of globalisation, redundancy through technological advancement, and wealth inequality. These are the phenomena which created the breeding ground for this disaster. In the US you also issues with gun control, and if I'm honest, a suspect educational system. None of this has any need for pan-global neoliberalism cabal of people to control it. It's just a natural consequence of internationalism aided by technological advance. There us no elite. There are just people who have profited, and those who have not. Trump is just a person who successfully capitalised on the situation using despicable methods, not far removed from what Hitler did. As a billionaire inheritor, he is much more 'elite' than Clinton was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I've stated several times I believe the issues that caused this clusterfuck are the adverse effects of globalisation, redundancy through technological advancement, and wealth inequality. These are the phenomena which created the breeding ground for this disaster. In the US you also issues with gun control, and if I'm honest, a suspect educational system. None of this has any need for pan-global neoliberalism cabal of people to control it. It's just a natural consequence of internationalism aided by technological advance. There us no elite. There are just people who have profited, and those who have not. Trump is just a person who successfully capitalised on the situation using despicable methods, not far removed from what Hitler did. As a billionaire inheritor, he is much more 'elite' than Clinton was. Sorry, you have said that before. I agree with you. We're talking about the same thing, and the same phenomenon, with different words. My earlier comment said there was no cabal or conspiracy either. Where you've written globalisation, technological advancement and wealth inequality, I just shorten that to Neoliberalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 I've stated several times I believe the issues that caused this clusterfuck are the adverse effects of globalisation, redundancy through technological advancement, and wealth inequality. These are the phenomena which created the breeding ground for this disaster. In the US you also issues with gun control, and if I'm honest, a suspect educational system. None of this has any need for pan-global neoliberalism cabal of people to control it. It's just a natural consequence of internationalism aided by technological advance. There us no elite. There are just people who have profited, and those who have not. Trump is just a person who successfully capitalised on the situation using despicable methods, not far removed from what Hitler did. As a billionaire inheritor, he is much more 'elite' than Clinton was. I'd prefer it if elected elites WERE controlling events nationally and globally. The problem is they aren't. They're throwing their hands up and saying "ah well, this is what you get from globalisation, we can't interfere in the delicate balance of the markets, let the chips fall where they may. Except this bank here and this car company there... here's a few billion for you. Feel free to lay off 100,000 people" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'd prefer it if elected elites WERE controlling events nationally and globally. The problem is they aren't. They're throwing their hands up and saying "ah well, this is what you get from globalisation, we can't interfere in the delicate balance of the markets, let the chips fall where they may" Good post actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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