NJS 4379 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Trumps lies were featured on More or Less on R4 this week. My absolute favourite was his claim if Hillary was elected 650 million immigrants would flood the US within a week. [emoji38] That's 4 million arrivals an hour, and the emptying of all central and south America, with some room left over for part of Africa too. Sorry, you'd literally be an idiot to buy a used car from this man let alone put him in the most powerful role on Earth. And yet...... 20 million turks heading for the UK....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 When did I suggest that? I'm basically saying almost half of America are bigoted idiots who ignore or don't care about the truth. But you dismiss Clinton's lies as unimportant so you don't care about the truth either. They view Trump the same way. So he said 650m immigrants will enter the country.... they won't. It's just a bit of hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7025 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 well if that happens, he'll win the election, which is why i think, and hope, it won't happen. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/latino-vote-surge-donald-trump-campaign-230804 The 2 people I know from Florida, one sensible and middle class, the other borderline redneck, are both voting trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 if brexit taught us anything it's that you shouldn't believe in polls, or trust experts, and this is clearly going to be a close race. so i wouldn't rule anything out at this stage and there are a lot of morons in the states who might vote against their own interests, just as the WWC voter did here in the UK on brexit. it's worth nothing though that as unpopular as hilllary is, she's up against one of the most offensive and divisive rivals ever to run for office. his campaign speaks to angry, white america but is that enough to win? Weren't the brexit polls like 3% out or something? The US election polls would need to be 20% out to defy expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 But you dismiss Clinton's lies as unimportant so you don't care about the truth either. They view Trump the same way. So he said 650m immigrants will enter the country.... they won't. It's just a bit of hyperbole. It's all relative though. Honestly, at this stage I just about give up. Lunacy abounds everywhere including this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44864 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Day before the election and the FTSE finished up 1.7%, the Dow Jones and S&P are both up nearly 2% in early trading and all the Asian markets closed up. Trump was right, the fix is in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 There are other reasons but if you look at the demographics of the Trump voters it would support what I'm suggesting. Disaffected, white, blue collar workers. I can understand the anti-establishment move to a point but honestly, what were seeing in the US and even to a lesser extent here is beginning to remind me of 1930s Germany. Well yes, absolutely. That's what appears to happen when the centreground fails. Which is why, IMO, it's so important that the pressure building up is released... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 It's all relative though. Honestly, at this stage I just about give up. Lunacy abounds everywhere including this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 there are myriad reasons this election is troubling. the rise of the far right being among my biggest fears. this will embolden the likes of le pen in france. whatever you think of america, and they don't always get it right, they're something of an example to the rest of the free world as its biggest democracy, and their policies underpin global security. putin is going to be rubbing his hands at a trump victory. i find the prospect of a racist, sexist, bigot who wants to tear up nato, free trade and the american constitution deeply worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 We all saw this months ago, but Trump saying "china" has been going through my mind all week. It's an horrific earworm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44864 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 there are myriad reasons this election is troubling. the rise of the far right being among my biggest fears. this will embolden the likes of le pen in france. whatever you think of america, and they don't always get it right, they're something of an example to the rest of the free world as its biggest democracy, and their policies underpin global security. putin is going to be rubbing his hands at a trump victory. i find the prospect of a racist, sexist, bigot who wants to tear up nato, free trade and the american constitution deeply worrying. https://youtu.be/HXCOoKYIPU4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Democrats are up nothing like what Obama was after early votes. Very close. It's definitely going to be closer than it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Well yes, absolutely. That's what appears to happen when the centreground fails. Which is why, IMO, it's so important that the pressure building up is released... Eh? It sounds like you're saying ths return of fascism is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 It's all relative though. Honestly, at this stage I just about give up. Lunacy abounds everywhere including this forum. I'm more worried about what we know is truthful from Trump. Like the fact he will appoint right wing supreme court judges that we're left with for decades to come, not just his 4 year term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44864 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'd grab his daughter by the pussy fo sho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'd grab his daughter by the pussy fo sho. So would he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44864 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 So would he That's why people relate to him. Common ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15525 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 That's why people relate to him. Common ground. Are you saying she gets around a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Eh? It sounds like you're saying ths return of fascism is a good thing? Ok maybe I've not explained myself well. I'm not sure I see fascism as an endpoint as such, but I can completely see an eventual and continuing lurch to the right if the centre continues to ignore people's legitimate concerns. I don't see this as good, I see it as inevitable. Things like Trump and Brexit seem like huge losses to us now, but if they weren't allowed to happen, I fear we'd end up with worse outcomes in the longer term. Basically, as I've said, the centreground neoliberal elite need to be seen to lose. Then at least they can go away, learn from their mistakes, and hopefully come back with a fairer model for social structure (while at the same time allowing the right wing nut jobs to demonstrate to the world that they're no more interested in people than the neoliberals are, but less competent). If they don't, and the status quo perpetuates, we'll end up with violence in the long run. The only thing that ever staves that off, is that people believe they have the power to change things through the system that already exists. The longer the status quo persists, the more the anger, pressure, and belief that the structures will never allow for meaningful change, will build up - and the bigger, I would argue, the eventual backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I maintain that I'd prefer Hillary to be in power generally, but my ideal scenario would be for Trump to win for just that first day alone to see the whole world lose its collective shit, and then for someone to come forward and say that there was a miscount and that actually Hillary won. I thought it would be canny funny if we voted for Brexit until we did. I still remember the feeling of dread looking at my phone half awake the next morning when I realised we had though. It wasn't as funny as I hoped. It appeals to me, the same way my vertigo hits at the top of a long drop and I wonder what it would be like to throw myself off. I have to stay away from the edge in case i do. Whatever happens, campaigning for 2020 will start in a couple of weeks so we have that to look forward to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 Trump's campaign has paid Trump's companies... $5.6m to use his planes (+$1.6m for the secret service to ride along) $500k to use Trump hotels and restauraunts for staff. $1m to rent Trump tower office space to run the campaign https://thenib.com/trumps-campaign-is-a-money-making-scam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Ok maybe I've not explained myself well. I'm not sure I see fascism as an endpoint as such, but I can completely see an eventual and continuing lurch to the right if the centre continues to ignore people's legitimate concerns. I don't see this as good, I see it as inevitable. Things like Trump and Brexit seem like huge losses to us now, but if they weren't allowed to happen, I fear we'd end up with worse outcomes in the longer term. Basically, as I've said, the centreground neoliberal elite need to be seen to lose. Then at least they can go away, learn from their mistakes, and hopefully come back with a fairer model for social structure (while at the same time allowing the right wing nut jobs to demonstrate to the world that they're no more interested in people than the neoliberals are, but less competent). If they don't, and the status quo perpetuates, we'll end up with violence in the long run. The only thing that ever staves that off, is that people believe they have the power to change things through the system that already exists. The longer the status quo persists, the more the anger, pressure, and belief that the structures will never allow for meaningful change, will build up - and the bigger, I would argue, the eventual backlash. For me this is an extremely high risk strategy, like you're wishing death today to avoid death tomorrow. I regard words like neoliberalism, the establishment, the elite as just words. They're not tangible enemies and the solution isn't to rip apart society with a massive lurch to the right, or left for that matter. There are real issues to solve such as globalism, the environment, and massive wealth inequality. But really, you've got to realise that from a historical context, life is pretty good for most of us. A revolution isn't called for yet, rather progressive improvement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Which is precisely what we aren't going to get with Trump and le Pen in power on ether sides of the Atlantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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