Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) if brexit taught us anything it's that you shouldn't believe in polls, or trust experts, and this is clearly going to be a close race. so i wouldn't rule anything out at this stage and there are a lot of morons in the states who might vote against their own interests, just as the WWC voter did here in the UK on brexit. it's worth nothing though that as unpopular as hilllary is, she's up against one of the most offensive and divisive rivals ever to run for office. his campaign speaks to angry, white america but is that enough to win? Edited November 7, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) hardly, he can't help himself. he's been using the language of fear regarding immigration before, during and since the primaries. he insulted the parents of a fallen muslim american war hero, and refused to back down. that was a big moment in the campaign. then you've got the icing on the cake - the pussy grab tape. there will no doubt still be some idiotic females out there who agree with trump when he argued that boasts of sexual assault can be dismissed as locker room banter, but i'd be surprised if that washes with the majority of the country's women. i just think he's insulted or offended too many voter groups, and the polls seem to support that. The Republican establishment tried to bury him early doors...They had Jed Bush and the two creeps Lyin Ted Cruz and 'Little' Rubio as back up. So he went further to the right of them then even they could handle...Muslims, walls, immigration, NAFTA, tax cuts, because he needed to make his mark. This was a smart strategy as he was essentially surrounded. When he went so far right he was out of the circle and the the rest of them were left staring at each other the rest is history. He developed kill shots for all the main GOP front runners.... Trumps has also improved his speaking style with more graceful hand movements and a slower pace. That's designed to make people think subliminally that he's already the President. It's why Clinton swapped from a lot of talk about policy to her new thing about Trump being dangerous....Nobody was listening to all the policy chit chat. Edited November 7, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 and he hasn't dropped any of that has he? he lost the latino vote, crucial in marginals like florida, when he first described mexican immigrants as rapists, and i don't think he's won them back. mexico are still going to pay for the wall apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Trumps lies were featured on More or Less on R4 this week. My absolute favourite was his claim if Hillary was elected 650 million immigrants would flood the US within a week. That's 4 million arrivals an hour, and the emptying of all central and south America, with some room left over for part of Africa too. Sorry, you'd literally be an idiot to buy a used car from this man let alone put him in the most powerful role on Earth. And yet...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 and he hasn't dropped any of that has he? he lost the latino vote, crucial in marginals like florida, when he first described mexican immigrants as rapists, and i don't think he's won them back. mexico are still going to pay for the wall apparently. He'll win Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) Trumps lies were featured on More or Less on R4 this week. My absolute favourite was his claim if Hillary was elected 650 million immigrants would flood the US within a week. That's 4 million arrivals an hour, and the emptying of all central and south America, with some room left over for part of Africa too. Sorry, you'd literally be an idiot to buy a used car from this man let alone put him in the most powerful role on Earth. And yet...... These things are designed to play on fear. Fear is an election winner. It doesn't matter what is made up. If it instills fear people's critical thinking goes out the window. Up and down America there is real fear and somehow he's directing it at the establishment. This is a game he can't lose because he isn't identified as a politician. Places where Hilary was up 5-6-7 points up are now too close to call. If there is one more big hit from anywhere against her she's done. Edited November 7, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 He'll win Florida. well if that happens, he'll win the election, which is why i think, and hope, it won't happen. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/latino-vote-surge-donald-trump-campaign-230804 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 hardly, he can't help himself. he's been using the language of fear regarding immigration before, during and since the primaries. he insulted the parents of a fallen muslim american war hero, and refused to back down. that was a big moment in the campaign. then you've got the icing on the cake - the pussy grab tape. there will no doubt still be some idiotic females out there who agree with trump when he argued that boasts of sexual assault can be dismissed as locker room banter, but i'd be surprised if that washes with the majority of the country's women. i just think he's insulted or offended too many voter groups, and the polls seem to support that. I'd say that's about right as well. People really hate Clinton though - if she was up against almost anyone else... in fact, I'm tempted to say that if she was up against your average punter in the street at this point, she'd probably lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 These things are designed to play on fear. Fear is an election winner. It doesn't matter what is made up. If it instills fear people's critical thinking goes out the window. Up and down America there is real fear and somehow he's directing it at the establishment. This is a game he can't lose because he isn't identified as a politician. I know why he's doing it, I'm just struggling to understand that people, even insular hicks, are buying it. It's just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I know why he's doing it, I'm just struggling to understand that people, even insular hicks, are buying it. It's just ridiculous. Who do you trust? Politicians like Hillary or someone who will confirm your own biases back to you? We all live in echo chambers to a degree, these people are just seeing theirs validated at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I mean, Hillary is a liar. Hello? Do these people not listen to the constant spouting of bullshit from the sex monster's mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 The Guardian has an article here as an insight into why people are voting Trump. It's not just the rabid racists either, some of the people in there are quite reasonable: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/05/donald-trump-supporters-door-to-door-campaign-pennsylvania “Donald Trump is not my first choice,” says Pozzi as he steers his Buick through the suburban streets. A registered Democrat (he voted for Obama twice) and former Bernie Sanders fan, he’s now an active member of the alt-right. But rather than the Twitter troll stereotype, he’s friendly and open, immediately willing to let me tag along with him and regularly cracking jokes. Pozzi believes the entire system of government is corrupt, and this election has radicalized him. “That’s why I’m here. We have owners,” he says. Pozzi believes certain billionaires – such as the Rothschild family and George Soros – are the “owners” of society and chose Obama as a candidate because he was black and therefore guaranteed to lose, ensuring Clinton would become president. He thinks a similar thing happened in this election: the owners chose Trump as a candidate, assuming he had no chance of winning against Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Another interesting experience from their door to door canvassing: The anti-Trump Republican appears just as often as the pro-Trump Democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'd say that's about right as well. People really hate Clinton though - if she was up against almost anyone else... in fact, I'm tempted to say that if she was up against your average punter in the street at this point, she'd probably lose. you're right but i'm struggling to understand just why she's as unpopular as she is, the email scandal aside, and being seen as representing big business and the "establishment", i don't get the rabid hate. i honestly think it might be deep-rooted, cultural misogyny. would she get as much stick for the same if she was a man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Who do you trust? Politicians like Hillary or someone who will confirm your own biases back to you? We all live in echo chambers to a degree, these people are just seeing theirs validated at the moment. Well people should be objective enough to fact check, not that that is even necessary with Trump. How on Earth people can believe his outlandish hyperbole is as beyond me as their hatred for Hillary (which I STILL don't understand the justification for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I think the Alt-Right is a big factor. And to be honest, there's a lot the Alt-Right says that holds water. “It’s almost like a French revolution at this stage. People everywhere are waking up. We’ve lost freedom of speech through political correctness. All of a sudden you’re scared and you can’t say what’s on your mind,” he adds. Which is why I feel that this is more about people looking past the candidates than the candidates themselves. Hillary has been incidental for me other than what she represents. Seems like a lot of people feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I mean, Hillary is a liar. Hello? Do these people not listen to the constant spouting of bullshit from the sex monster's mouth? Which people? Are you saying Trump's lies have not got media coverage? It's the job of Clinton and Trump supporters to amplify their opponent's lies and disregard their candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 you're right but i'm struggling to understand just why she's as unpopular as she is, the email scandal aside, and being seen as representing big business and the "establishment", i don't get the rabid hate. i honestly think it might be deep-rooted, cultural misogyny. would she get as much stick for the same if she was a man? Would Sarah Palin be getting the same shit as Clinton? Or Warren? Doubtful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 you're right but i'm struggling to understand just why she's as unpopular as she is, the email scandal aside, and being seen as representing big business and the "establishment", i don't get the rabid hate. i honestly think it might be deep-rooted, cultural misogyny. would she get as much stick for the same if she was a man? No. They elected Bush junior ffs so it's not even about nepotism which would be my biggest concern. A black president followed by a woman is too much for them. A white man, ANY white man, is what is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 A white man, ANY white man, is what is required. If that's really what this is about then that's a deplorable state of affairs. And it would mean I've entirely misread this. But I can see reasons to vote for an anti-establishment candidate ahead of Clinton, and I've spent this entire election wishing that Palin had run instead of Trump. If she had, we'd be able to dispense with this identity politics sideshow and the useless wing of the left would have to contend with the fact that actually, Clinton just isn't offering people anything that they either believe in or want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Which people? Are you saying Trump's lies have not got media coverage? It's the job of Clinton and Trump supporters to amplify their opponent's lies and disregard their candidates. When did I suggest that? I'm basically saying almost half of America are bigoted idiots who ignore or don't care about the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Would Sarah Palin be getting the same shit as Clinton? Or Warren? Doubtful... I'd like to think the stupid bint Palin would, not that the GOP would ever nominate a candidate other than a white middle aged man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 well if that happens, he'll win the election, which is why i think, and hope, it won't happen. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/latino-vote-surge-donald-trump-campaign-230804 Democrats are up nothing like what Obama was after early votes. Very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5220 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) I'd like to think the stupid bint Palin would, not that the GOP would ever nominate a candidate other than a white middle aged man Palin is also a fairly terrible human being (although I've had my terrible person radar realigned in the Trump era). But she'd be a far superior candidate to Trump. The Republicans didn't want him man, the GOP hate the guy. This (Trump's movement) is about anti-establishmentarianism and a backlash against fake leftwing politics (identity politics/neoliberalism/humanitarian intervention). Edited November 7, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21620 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 If that's really what this is about then that's a deplorable state of affairs. And it would mean I've entirely misread this. But I can see reasons to vote for an anti-establishment candidate ahead of Clinton, and I've spent this entire election wishing that Palin had run instead of Trump. If she had, we'd be able to dispense with this identity politics sideshow and the useless wing of the left would have to contend with the fact that actually, Clinton just isn't offering people anything that they either believe in or want. There are other reasons but if you look at the demographics of the Trump voters it would support what I'm suggesting. Disaffected, white, blue collar workers. I can understand the anti-establishment move to a point but honestly, what were seeing in the US and even to a lesser extent here is beginning to remind me of 1930s Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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