Tottenham Hotspur v Newcastle United

[Park Life 71]

Boom!

[Park Life 71]

26m for Soldado?

Edited November 12, 2013 by Park Life

[Happy Face 29]

There seems to me a disparity between our expectations of Newcastle (8th most expensive squad/wages in the league mean we should walk over anyone with a lesser squad) and those of the better teams in the league (Pardew is too defeatist against them, he only plays for tight margins and sets us up far too deep, paying them too much respect...we rely on luck to win these games).

 

We have to accept that teams like Hull and Sunderland will upset us while we also look to upset the likes of Tottenham. Most teams leading by one at half time at WHL are going to be put under pressure as the demands are that Spurs win their home games against lesser opposition, even more than that demand is made at SJP.

 

Another quote from Fergie, not a funny one this time, about the year they won the European Cup, and had to weather the storm in the semi against Barcelona...

 

 

It's important to appreciate a good performance stealing victory from superior opposition, rather than dismissing it as a lucky one.

[Park Life 71]

We've deserved the last two wins and our fight and tenacity has been awesome. These are the kinds of wins that really galvanise a side and I think we'll win the next two with ease. The levels of performance are really key in the PL especially when the elite sides are out of kilter. Pellegrini has looked shell shocked away from home, avb is as clueless as they come trying to marshall a million midfielders with no bottle and Mou has run up against an aging side (Lamp and Terry are finished yet start many games) with no Drogba. The spat with Mata was very revealing in that he starts two DM's in home games instead of playing Mata AND Oscar.

 

We need 2 players for a top 4 finish. OMG!! Yes I said it!

Edited November 12, 2013 by Park Life

[McFaul 35]

They are on astronomical wages and are "elite" athletes, even 3 games a week shouldn't be a problem.

Couldn't agree more. See in 87/88 we played three games in four days. Obviously that's ridiculous, but I applaud AVB's comments.

[McFaul 35]

My point is that 4 days is not 2 days, once you've had the extra days rest it doesnt matter if its 4 days or 8 days. Its also about training and preparation. 1 extra day makes a difference.

 

It doesnt really matter what i think or whether people's noses are out, the evidence speaks for itself. In the 6 prem games Swansea and Spurs have played after the EL since the international break in September, only 1 victory.

 

There are loads of other factors at play of course, the win, loss or draw following the European game is not determined solely by the existence of not of a european game. For example in 2002/3, as you well know, Sunderland were one of the worst sides ever to play in the premiership. We might well have been affected by the Kiev game, they were just shite.

Why is that evidence anymore relavent than the 16 games the toon played after CL games in 2002/2003 in which we won 14 of them? In the Europa League too, teams are FAR more likely to play fringe players than they are in the Champions League too.

[Park Life 71]

Couldn't agree more. See in 87/88 we played three games in four days. Obviously that's ridiculous, but I applaud AVB's comments.

Whatever the merits of that issue avb is also aware that such piffle musn't get into the players heads...Something Pardclue was never bright enough to consider.

[McFaul 35]

Whatever the merits of that issue avb is also aware that such piffle musn't get into the players heads...Something Pardclue was never bright enough to consider.

That's again a very good point, and you could use SBR (0203) in the same way as you're using AVB. Pardew as a psychologist and tactical manager is no where near either of them

Edited November 12, 2013 by McFaul

[ChezGiven 0]

Why is that evidence anymore relavent than the 16 games the toon played after CL games in 2002/2003 in which we won 14 of them? In the Europa League too, teams are FAR more likely to play fringe players than they are in the Champions League too.

I said why i think its more relevant. You get one day less break from the EL and one day makes all the difference to training, fitness and preparation. Its not the be all and end all, you're right to point out teams who it has not affected but its an issue for Spurs and Swansea this year and us last year. I think Stoke had the same issue too. Maybe not for everyone but its a factor.

 

We finished 3rd that year, something Swansea are certainly not capable of and therefore they are more likely to be affected. They dont have the quality we had to deal with it (or arguably the quantity either, we had quite the squad in them days).

[McFaul 35]

I said why i think its more relevant. You get one day less break from the EL and one day makes all the difference to training, fitness and preparation. Its not the be all and end all, you're right to point out teams who it has not affected but its an issue for Spurs and Swansea this year and us last year. I think Stoke had the same issue too. Maybe not for everyone but its a factor.

 

We finished 3rd that year, something Swansea are certainly not capable of and therefore they are more likely to be affected. They dont have the quality we had to deal with it (or arguably the quantity either, we had quite the squad in them days).

Many times in the Champions League we'd play on a Wednesday and then even on a Saturday morning. It wasn't always a Tuesday and Sunday carry on. We had it in 2003/2004 too games on Thursday then games on a Sunday and we only lost 8 all season which is one of the fewest sets of defeats we've ever had in a top flight season. As I said how many of the Tottenham players who are starting their Europa League games are starting Premier League games? Defoe starts every single one, I'm not even sure if he's started a Premier League game this season. As for Swansea they finished last season with five more points than we did in SIXTEENTH. This season they sit in 13th, which is about right for them, like wise Stoke 10/11 (without European football) 46 points, 11/12 (with European football) 45 points, 12/13 (without European football) 41 points. Negligiable differences.

[Tooj 17]

The quicker avb gets back to his bread and butter work in Lord of the rings the faster Spurs will be back on song. Bale used to score loads from outside the area, there is a reason for that. Extra games start to matter toward the end of the season just as smaller squads suffer after christmas.

 

Because AVB built the team around him and let him just have a free role outside of the box?

[Park Life 71]

 

Because AVB built the team around him and let him just have a free role outside of the box?

 

Spurs players look at the box like it's a radiation zone.

[Rayvin 5299]

That's again a very good point, and you could use SBR (0203) in the same way as you're using AVB. Pardew as a psychologist and tactical manager is no where near either of them

 

If AVB was such a psychologically brilliant manager, he wouldn't have lost the Chelsea dressing room in about 4 months, and Spurs would have found the confidence to score more.

 

Pardew isn't great by any stretch, but he has just beaten the master and the apprentice in straight games, and has in general fostered better team spirit than this club has had in a long time.

 

Without actually being in the club, it's hard to say whether or not the Europa League has an effect. All we can do is speculate really - but Swansea certainly seem to have lost their way - I get the point about fitness, but what about things like match preparation? If you normally have 5/6 days to prepare for your next league match, doesn't that go out of the window if you have a game on Thursday? You would only have 1 or 2 full days to prepare for your next league game (i.e. managing tactics and individual player strategies etc).

[Tom 14013]

According to physio room we lost twice as many days to injury than any other team in the league - Wigan were second in that table so to say it didn't effect us is daft.

[McFaul 35]

If AVB was such a psychologically brilliant manager, he wouldn't have lost the Chelsea dressing room in about 4 months, and Spurs would have found the confidence to score more.

 

Pardew isn't great by any stretch, but he has just beaten the master and the apprentice in straight games, and has in general fostered better team spirit than this club has had in a long time.

 

Without actually being in the club, it's hard to say whether or not the Europa League has an effect. All we can do is speculate really - but Swansea certainly seem to have lost their way - I get the point about fitness, but what about things like match preparation? If you normally have 5/6 days to prepare for your next league match, doesn't that go out of the window if you have a game on Thursday? You would only have 1 or 2 full days to prepare for your next league game (i.e. managing tactics and individual player strategies etc).

AVB lost the dressing room for lots of reasons, his ability as a manager wasn't one of them. The thing with Chelsea you had so many ego's there, and still do. If you think back to when Mourinho was sacked the only one who got any vague respect was Ancelotti and even he got sacked. The likes of John Terry and Lampard are too arrogant to listen to a miserable bloke the same age as them who has never played football, going in to Tottenham, he's got a younger squad many of whom he has signed himself. I don't care about the standard of the Portuguese league, but to go a whole season dropping eight points is almost unparalleled and irrespective of what anyone says he's continued to do a great job at Tottenham, any manager who's side concedes only 6 goals in 10 Premier League games, has no problems tactically.

[McFaul 35]

According to physio room we lost twice as many days to injury than any other team in the league - Wigan were second in that table so to say it didn't effect us is daft.

We had a worse injury crisis in 2000/2001 with no Europe, to the extent Kevin Gallacher was our main striker in many games, a 35 year old has been. He even played Stephen Glass up front one game. Wigan weren't in Europe last season, so I don't know how it could've effected them mind. Edited November 13, 2013 by McFaul

[Tom 14013]

I never said it did.

[McFaul 35]

Well you said they were second in the injury table, I didn't get what the relevance of them being second was.

[Tom 14013]

Aye fair one.

[McFaul 35]

Newcastle 2012/2013

Stoke 2011/2012

Aston Villa 2010/2011

Aston Villa 2009/2010

Fulham 2009/2010

Portsmouth 2008/2009

Everton 2008/2009

Everton 2007/2008

Bolton 2007/2008

 

Of these clubs who don't often get in to Europe, look at all of them. (I'm sure people will accept the reasons for Portsmouth's decline btw). Apart from Newcastle look at their Premier League seasons prior to Europe, their seasons in Europe, and their seasons after Europe. The differences are not even worth talking about. This has all been accentuated because we were so shit in the league last season. It's an excuse Pardew needs, if there's a hint of a one that he can find on any given day he will find it. We had injuries last season yes, but we've had seasons where we've not been in Europe where the crises have been even worse.

[BigWalrus 0]

"injury crisis" ignores the mix of injuries. A few serious long term issues like ruptured ligaments or broken legs can seriously skew the figure.

 

These need to be eliminated so we are only considering the niggles, strains and pulls that come with playing too many games and not allowing sufficient recovery time.

[Tom 14013]

Nobody is saying Pardew wasn't poor but a small squad with some players obviously not good enough, a load of injuries & packed fixture list obviously told in the end.

 

The club gambled in the summer by not investing and they ended up with egg on their face.

[Rayvin 5299]

Newcastle 2012/2013

Stoke 2011/2012

Aston Villa 2010/2011

Aston Villa 2009/2010

Fulham 2009/2010

Portsmouth 2008/2009

Everton 2008/2009

Everton 2007/2008

Bolton 2007/2008

 

Of these clubs who don't often get in to Europe, look at all of them. (I'm sure people will accept the reasons for Portsmouth's decline btw). Apart from Newcastle look at their Premier League seasons prior to Europe, their seasons in Europe, and their seasons after Europe. The differences are not even worth talking about. This has all been accentuated because we were so shit in the league last season. It's an excuse Pardew needs, if there's a hint of a one that he can find on any given day he will find it. We had injuries last season yes, but we've had seasons where we've not been in Europe where the crises have been even worse.

 

That's a fair point - and in truth, for me that settles the Europa League aspect. With that said, though, you noted earlier something about a handful of points being a fairly negligible matter in cases such as this. We were only 5 points off 8th last season (although admittedly our goal difference would have seen us in 10th). I think the League last year was a bit of a freak thing - everyone was so tightly packed from 8th to 17th. One more win (say against Wigan or Reading) would have put us 11th.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rayvin

[McFaul 35]

Nobody is saying Pardew wasn't poor but a small squad with some players obviously not good enough, a load of injuries & packed fixture list obviously told in the end.

 

The club gambled in the summer by not investing and they ended up with egg on their face.

Aye and there's no way in the world he was happy with the situation. The only reason that fat bastard gave him money in the January is because it's easier to spend £22m on players than lose £70m with the threat of relegation. I've got no respect for Pardew, none at all. Fair enough it's nigh on impossible for him to say "yeah I'll be honest, Mike is a fat faakin caant", but "that ones for Mike", fuck off man. I'll never ever respect him, he should fuck off and take Max Clifford's job.

[Happy Face 29]

AVB lost the dressing room for lots of reasons, his ability as a manager wasn't one of them. The thing with Chelsea you had so many ego's there, and still do. If you think back to when Mourinho was sacked the only one who got any vague respect was Ancelotti and even he got sacked. The likes of John Terry and Lampard are too arrogant to listen to a miserable bloke the same age as them who has never played football, going in to Tottenham, he's got a younger squad many of whom he has signed himself. I don't care about the standard of the Portuguese league, but to go a whole season dropping eight points is almost unparalleled and irrespective of what anyone says he's continued to do a great job at Tottenham, any manager who's side concedes only 6 goals in 10 Premier League games, has no problems tactically.

 

Cloughy wasn't a shit manager, but he couldn't break the player power at Leeds either.

 

The manager has to have total control of his players. When the club back players over the manager it's a downward spiral. Even a respected man like Robson was weakened by Shepherd refusing to get in line with him over Shearer.