Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Shouldn't you be crying into your chocolate cake, while writing in a diary about your back fat and bingo wings? sorry to disappoint you saying I can't feel hit, I don't own those kind of mental or physical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4222 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Im all for the finding a right balance argument. But Jonas really has to offer something more than headless chicken running. His game has gone completely off. Dont think he should be dropped considering what a good job he has often done in the past for us and can still do in the future. And I maintain his form has a lot do with the number of different roles and positions he has been asked to play for us this season. Just hope somebody is sitting with down with him to try and sort it out now that we have a semblance of the first team back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 As a leftside player i would get rid,but i would give him a chance wide right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'm also all for try using Jonas on the right though, he is clearly running towards a wall on this side, probably fed up of being Santon's reserve defender and never being able to get in a good cross because his left foot don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It seems such an obvious thing to do.If our left back needs a minder,should we not have a left back who can defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It seems such an obvious thing to do.If our left back needs a minder,should we not have a left back who can defend. Noooo can't happen, that's what other teams usually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I see Marveaux is back in training today. Apparently his injury isn't as bad as first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4821 Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 I see Marveaux is back in training today. Apparently his injury isn't as bad as first thought. Just seen that. Great news if he makes it. In the old days a couple of pre match injections and nowts the bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It seems such an obvious thing to do.If our left back needs a minder,should we not have a left back who can defend. Noooo can't happen, that's what other teams usually have. Oh so now Santon's not good enough either - FFS! I see Marveaux is back in training today. Apparently his injury isn't as bad as first thought. They obviously found another pea for his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 They obviously found another pea for his heart. Mushy or marrowfat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Oh so now Santon's not good enough either - FFS! Not many fullbacks in PL are so dependent of having a support defensive winger playing ahead of them as him. I really want to see a natural left back like we have in Haidara in action, and maybe Santon can opt for the right winger position while Ben Arfa is gone? Edited January 31, 2013 by Aeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Not many fullbacks in PL are so dependent of having a support defensive winger playing ahead of them as him. I really want to see a natural left back like we have in Haidara in action, and maybe Santon can opt for the right winger position while Ben Arfa is gone? Santon isn't any more dependent on having support ahead than any other full back in the league. It's a standard requirement of a wide midfielder to support his fullback to prevent him from being outnumbered, just as much as going forward. No full back in the world could cope with being attacked by an opposition winger and overlapping fullback, all at once, without some help from team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Aeris, having a sensible discussion about this, the problem is you cannot have it both ways, regardless of what Supernaut says. Either you have a fullbacks that are good and willing to attack or you have another defender standing next to the centre backs waiting to defend, see Curtis good playing for Bradford against Villa, who does not contribute to the attack. Let's use Chelsea as an example where attacking fullbacks have been used with success for a number of seasons. When they played a 4-3-3, the midfield 3 consisted of Essien, Mikel and fat Frank. Neither Essien or Mikel are known for their attacking, so as the FB would venture forward, one of those two would move across to cover. With our 4-1-3-1-1, or it's variants, the job to cover the overlapping FB falls to the wide players of the 3, as we don't play two DMs. This immediately upsets the attacking balance, because when the FB overlaps, they cannot join the attack, as their role has just changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) I get the structure of the tactic we are playing with, but I still think we could've been way better off if our left fullback was more skilled defensively. Besides doing what's naturally has to happen in such a tactic there's an awful load of extra defensive work expected from Jonas. Could just be because they are neither natural left fielders. Edited January 31, 2013 by Aeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 What "skills" are you looking for in said fullback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 What "skills" are you looking for in said fullback? besides being a half-decent attacking winger, decent cross, decent technique, I'd highly regard positioning, work rate, marking, tackle, anticipation, not losing focus etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I get the structure of the tactic we are playing with, but I still think we could've been way better off if our left fullback was more skilled defensively. Besides doing what's naturally has to happen in such a tactic there's an awful load of extra defensive work expected from Jonas. Could just be because they are neither natural left fielders. I agree, I think it would be smarter to have at least on left footed player playing down the left side, that said, the left footed players we've had up until Haidara signed were either not good enough or lacked the defensive discipline to play in the formation the manager chooses to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 besides being a half-decent attacking winger, decent cross, decent technique, I'd highly regard positioning, work rate, marking, tackle, anticipation, not losing focus etc. So Enrique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 So Enrique? Basically yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Santon does get caught with the diagonal ball sometimes. I'm sure that's something they'll coach out of him. Look, Jonas, nice lad, bit of a grafter, but it's not happened for him all season and we've carried him too many times. We have viable alternatives that we didn't have before. The fact that Pardew won't even entertain the idea of taking him off when he's having the shitter of all shitters means he has no incentive to pull his finger out of his arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Santon isn't any more dependent on having support ahead than any other full back in the league. It's a standard requirement of a wide midfielder to support his fullback to prevent him from being outnumbered, just as much as going forward. With a 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 etc. we could have wide centre-backs taking care of that instead, letting our 2 offensive-minded wingbacks go almost full-on attacking aiming to put bullets in Cisse's gun. Could also supply with a deeplying midfielder who patrol in front of the often just 3 man defence, Anita/Perch. We also have exceptional hardworkers in Cabaye and Sissoko help both out attack and defense, and to link up with midfield and Cisse we could use either a free-role playmaker Marveaux, or more of a everywhere attacking force like Gouffran, Marve probably being more assist-minded Gouffran more goal-minded. Can't promise it's gonna work just like that, but at least we are not initially using the players where they have weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It may well work, who knows? I've always found teams with a back five find it much harder to spring an offside trap, whereas with a back four it's easier to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It may well work, who knows? I've always found teams with a back five find it much harder to spring an offside trap, whereas with a back four it's easier to control. Still if there were someone who could manage it would be Mbiwa, Colo and Taylor together. Clark, Vlaar and Baker who's that compared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22143 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 With a 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 etc. we could have wide centre-backs taking care of that instead, letting our 2 offensive-minded wingbacks go almost full-on attacking aiming to put bullets in Cisse's gun. Could also supply with a deeplying midfielder who patrol in front of the often just 3 man defence, Anita/Perch. We also have exceptional hardworkers in Cabaye and Sissoko help both out attack and defense, and to link up with midfield and Cisse we could use either a free-role playmaker Marveaux, or more of a everywhere attacking force like Gouffran, Marve probably being more assist-minded Gouffran more goal-minded. Can't promise it's gonna work just like that, but at least we are not initially using the players where they have weaknesses. 5-3-2 went out with Britpop. No top teams play with three centre halves anymore. Not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 You end up being over-run in midfield, meaning one of your centre backs ends up stepping out to support. In which case you might as well play a midfielder there and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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