Holden McGroin 6865 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) I quite like the article. They are damned if they do ask questions and damned if they don't. Edited September 4, 2013 by Holden McGroin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I quite like the article. They are damned if they do ask questions and damned if they don't. Aye absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont know, within that there is the implicit view that is common amongst Americans that making lots of money somehow translates to some underlying value in the character. I dont agree, i've met people who earn hundreds of millions who are thick as fucking pigshit and total arseholes. Mid-west, mid-size business owners who make money from selling some shit widget in some shit process that for some reason has made their fortune. Its entirely plausible that Ashley is both 1) not that clever and 2) a total fucking arsehole who thinks because he has money that the thought process he just had must be a good one. Its entirely plausible that when pissed, Joe talks a good enough game to convince Ashley that he can do a job for him and that Ashley is stupid enough to believe it. its further plausible there was a bit of cash to spend (certainly seemed like it) but that the ineptitude of the total arseholes in charge meant they failed in their task. If Kinnear was involved in any of the negotiations, it's plausible he made a complete and total arse of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont know, within that there is the implicit view that is common amongst Americans that making lots of money somehow translates to some underlying value in the character. I dont agree, i've met people who earn hundreds of millions who are thick as fucking pigshit and total arseholes. Mid-west, mid-size business owners who make money from selling some shit widget in some shit process that for some reason has made their fortune. Its entirely plausible that Ashley is both 1) not that clever and 2) a total fucking arsehole who thinks because he has money that the thought process he just had must be a good one. Its entirely plausible that when pissed, Joe talks a good enough game to convince Ashley that he can do a job for him and that Ashley is stupid enough to believe it. its further plausible there was a bit of cash to spend (certainly seemed like it) but that the ineptitude of the total arseholes in charge meant they failed in their task. All those things are plausible and there are many monkey millionaires out there that's for sure. Is Ashley not that clever? As a human being and a social entity it's pretty clear he isn't...As a businessman? I used to think he identifyied a niche and got lucky...But I now realise that isn't really true...He might not be an properly intelligent businessman with a super-overview but he certainly is ruthless and has that self-made penchant they all have: Gut feeling. He's instinctive and as you say his lack self-awareness regarding his idea generation means he's gonna get things wrong as much as he gets them right...Don't forget he's lost a lot of money as well as making a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 If Kinnear was involved in any of the negotiations, it's plausible he made a complete and total arse of them. Think that was part of the plan. My feeling is that Pardew wanted first Carroll and then Bent and Carr had the Douglas deal ready to go...Kinnear was sent in to kick all that into touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Think that was part of the plan. My feeling is that Pardew wanted first Carroll and then Bent and Carr had the Douglas deal ready to go...Kinnear was sent in to kick all that into touch. Seems an elaborate way of doing things......why couldn't Ashley just say no? Kinnear bullshitting his way into a job he's incapable of doing fits the facts better.....considering Dennis Wise has pulled off that trick already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It's all just smoke & mirrors from Ashley even down to the last day of the window the rumours circulating that we may get Ba back on loan a player we had sold 6 months ago. It was just a case of throwing some crumbs out to placate the fans but i dont believe there was any genuine intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Seems an elaborate way of doing things......why couldn't Ashley just say no? Kinnear bullshitting his way into a job he's incapable of doing fits the facts better.....considering Dennis Wise has pulled off that trick already.... So Kinnear takes the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 All those things are plausible and there are many monkey millionaires out there that's for sure. Is Ashley not that clever? As a human being and a social entity it's pretty clear he isn't...As a businessman? I used to think he identifyied a niche and got lucky...But I now realise that isn't really true...He might not be an properly intelligent businessman with a super-overview but he certainly is ruthless and has that self-made penchant they all have: Gut feeling. He's instinctive and as you say his lack self-awareness regarding his idea generation means he's gonna get things wrong as much as he gets them right...Don't forget he's lost a lot of money as well as making a lot... If he lost Lambrusco over some disagreement and then was left with a need to appoint someone asap, its plausible Kinnear was the 'football person' he thought of. This is the criminally stupid act. It also plausible that is some Machiavellian play in response to the 8 year contract that he didnt want Pardew to get. I doubt that. He's appointed Kinnear because he doesnt have the self-awareness to realise that the thought process came from his arse and Kinnear has failed to bring anyone in as the bloke is a total moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It's all just smoke & mirrors from Ashley even down to the last day of the window the rumours circulating that we may get Ba back on loan a player we had sold 6 months ago. It was just a case of throwing some crumbs out to placate the fans but i dont believe there was any genuine intention. Lot of smoke and mirrors obviously...But we did bid for Gomis that was confirmed by that mad bloke running their club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 The new Taylor and Besty podcast is out and has Caulkin as a guest. He covers a fair bit in the small amount I've listened to so far. He(Caulkin) had a good working relationship with Lambias last season. Pardew was happy to have a Director of Football installed at the club. The idea was to have a 'football man' at boardroom level, to help Pardew and the board Regarding Bent, Pardew really wanted him, and Bent really wanted to come. We sat tight, and were quite open in our chase for different strikers (Gomis). Bent sat and waited for the call from the club, when Fulham started courting him and making him feel wanted he was delighted with the contrast to nufc's approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 The fact of the matter this summer is that no one in British or European football who reads the English football press would have one iota of respect for Kinnear. Imagine actually having a conversation with him, the moment he said anything about himself you'd just start laughing thinking of the car crashes on Talksport etc. Young business-like super sharp negotiation-trained agents having a conversation with someone who had multiple lies exposed in the most famous interview of the summer. Ineptitude & morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 If he lost Lambrusco over some disagreement and then was left with a need to appoint someone asap, its plausible Kinnear was the 'football person' he thought of. This is the criminally stupid act. It also plausible that is some Machiavellian play in response to the 8 year contract that he didnt want Pardew to get. I doubt that. He's appointed Kinnear because he doesnt have the self-awareness to realise that the thought process came from his arse and Kinnear has failed to bring anyone in as the bloke is a total moron. JK told Bent he'd have to wait till the last day of the window so we could get the best deal. That's MA talking. JK is just a front imo and someone who can put the frightners on Pardew. Of course it's mindnumbing that JK has any kind of role at a PL club...I honestly don't think MA really thinks that JK will make any difference at the club...It's a mate, it's his eyes and ears and primarily someone who has put a check on the Carr/Pardew axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It's terrifying anyone could employ Kinnear expecting him to do a serious job as DoF, operating in today's football world. I honestly think he swans about half pissed acting like Brick Top in Snatch, whilst people stifle laughs around him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It makes no difference whether Bent wanted to come and Pardew wanted him because jfk would have made the final decision and he clearly didn't think it was a good deal for Ashley's club.If jfk doesn't fancy the player any amount of excuses could be given to Pardew `he wanted too much money.......they wanted too much for him.....the agent wanted too much to do the deal.....he wouldn't move to the north east ' .Why doesn't Pardew of jfk simply come out and give the reasons why our targets wouldn't couldn't come to SJP. It's only doing harm by saying nowt but then again,are they really bothered what we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 No, they're not bothered. JFK is more intelligent than the fans, remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It makes no difference whether Bent wanted to come and Pardew wanted him because jfk would have made the final decision and he clearly didn't think it was a good deal for Ashley's club.If jfk doesn't fancy the player any amount of excuses could be given to Pardew `he wanted too much money.......they wanted too much for him.....the agent wanted too much to do the deal.....he wouldn't move to the north east ' .Why doesn't Pardew of jfk simply come out and give the reasons why our targets wouldn't couldn't come to SJP. It's only doing harm by saying nowt but then again,are they really bothered what we think. Bent wanted to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 So Kinnear effectively blocked the Douglas transfer and the Bent transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Bent wanted to come. Bugger all resale value at nearly 30. Doesn't fit Ashley's blueprint.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 So Kinnear effectively blocked the Douglas transfer and the Bent transfer. Apparently he hadn't heard of either player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Ashley is a salesman. He has built a sales empire but doesn't personally get to sell anything in his shops anymore. The reported hands on approach he apparently takes when it comes to negotiating player sales seems to me to be the primary interest he has in the club. Competing with other chairman to see who can do the best in the market. Scaling up the trading he enjoys to a multimillion pound product that keeps it interesting. He's not going to buy players expensively on the last day of a window for the good of the team. That would be losing the game he is interested in, which isn't football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Apparently he hadn't heard of either player Frantically making calls to John Scales and Vinnie Jones an hour before deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 The fact of the matter this summer is that no one in British or European football who reads the English football press would have one iota of respect for Kinnear. Imagine actually having a conversation with him, the moment he said anything about himself you'd just start laughing thinking of the car crashes on Talksport etc. Young business-like super sharp negotiation-trained agents having a conversation with someone who had multiple lies exposed in the most famous interview of the summer. Ineptitude & morons. He can't even get the players names right i'll bet his negotiation skills are outstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 So Kinnear effectively blocked the Douglas transfer and the Bent transfer. He blocked the Douglas transfer. Bent was told he'd have to wait till the last day of the window and obvioulsy that was ridiculous and disrespectful. Pardew wanted Bent from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17905 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Bugger all resale value at nearly 30. Doesn't fit Ashley's blueprint.... Ashley was being praised for this sort of thing 18 months ago. Not that much has changed tbh, other than the present understanding that we're not going down the road that Spurs have gone down; i.e. money from player sales going straight into further recruitment. All money is going to pay off the loans, and if we're then desperate for a player or staring relegation in the face then we'll maybe buy then. But only in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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