ewerk 30611 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 15:22, Rayvin said: I think we should have gone through the proper channels and, if the Russians obstructed the process the whole way, allowed that to speak for itself as far as the international community is concerned. Just to give you an idea of what happens when you go down the proper channels. http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/04/20/this-is-how-putin-kneecapped-the-un-security-council Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Just to give you an idea of what happens when you go down the proper channels. http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/04/20/this-is-how-putin-kneecapped-the-un-security-council I am aware that this happens, but it's no reason not to stick to formal procedure. What is the point in any of us even signing up to these conventions and treaties if literally no one is going to pay any attention to them? The Russians will just be able to turn around and say that we pay no more attention to these official bodies than they do. And they're right. What have those bombing raids even achieved? Have we crippled the Assad regime's ability to do it again? Or will they have moved everything they needed to another facility/arranged to buy them from Russia? If we're not going to bother with due process, what is even the point in us being in the UN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 The process is broken. That much is very clear. So what was the alternative? To keep pissing in the wind? The airstrikes were a warning shot across the bow. I've no doubt the Syrians were well aware that these targets were due to be hit and had moved key personnel and stocks. The aim was not to cripple them but to make them aware that the rest of the world were prepared to take military action if they continued to cross the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 3 hours ago, ewerk said: I think it is true but I very much doubt whether it was a factor in deciding to take part in airstrikes. It does seem strange though that he's allowed to continue in his role while his wife is PM. Perhaps she gets a family discount 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: The process is broken. That much is very clear. So what was the alternative? To keep pissing in the wind? The airstrikes were a warning shot across the bow. I've no doubt the Syrians were well aware that these targets were due to be hit and had moved key personnel and stocks. The aim was not to cripple them but to make them aware that the rest of the world were prepared to take military action if they continued to cross the line. Why would they even do it? They didn't need to use chemical weapons ffs, the whole West had already declared that they had won. That aside, if the processes are broken, we need to publically say so with the international backing of our partners. It is impossible for us to do that at the moment because we flout as many of these procedures as the 'rogue' states do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Hasn't Douma been under rebel control for years? Syria may have won the civil war but Douma was a nut they still couldn't crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I don't know the details on that to be honest, so maybe that would be why. Although I can only think they would be used as a morale breaker since they only killed 43 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Only 43? What's that worth in white people to you? 2 or 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Only 43? What's that worth in white people to you? 2 or 3? If the city of Douma was being successfully held by 43 rebels, then the Syrian army is a total irrelevance. I said "only 43" in the context of it not being a game changing number of rebel casualties, assuming indeed that any of them actually were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17262 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted May 28, 2019 Author Share Posted May 28, 2019 https://news.sky.com/story/syrian-regime-forces-drop-banned-cluster-bombs-on-idlib-and-target-hospitals-11730044 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/09/turkey-launches-military-operation-in-northern-syria-erdogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Anorthernsoul said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/09/turkey-launches-military-operation-in-northern-syria-erdogan No big surprise there - Trump now saying it doesn't matter because the Kurds weren't there on the beaches on D Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44881 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Honestly, I've said it before, but I hope that fat cunt drops dead very soon. He is a mindbendingly awful human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 20 hours ago, Gemmill said: I hope that fat cunt drops dead very soon. Unfortunately, not going to happen. No one's that lucky - and of course it just means Pence in the WH Hopefully, America will wake up to itself next year, and his head explodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 They should sever any alliances with Germany. They didn’t help much on D-Day either 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/11/2019 at 15:50, Alex said: They should sever any alliances with Germany. They didn’t help much on D-Day either I think that is on Trump's cards already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) I have been thinking a lot about this and have some queries because the more I think about it, the more I think Trump has done the right thing here. It's been reported today that a Russian backed deal with Syria, which will see the Kurds revert to Syrian rule instead of being autonomous, has been agreed. The Kurds have surrendered their newly won freedoms in exchange for protection from Erdogan, which will see the political situation return to more or less where it was before this whole fiasco kicked off. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/14/assad-troops-enter-northeast-syria-russia-backed-deal-kurds/ So I think we can safely assume that Russia and Syria will be able to repel Turkey at least as well as the US would have been, if not more. The Kurds, for their part, agreed to this pretty quickly. In fact, the whole thing happened so fast that I would be surprised if the US didn't expect/know of it. So ok, we've surrendered geopolitical control of the region to Russia, more or less as things were before Obama got involved. What would the US or the Kurds have gained by the US staying? A full on war with Turkey? Do any of us actually want that? As humiliating as this is for the US, I actually think fewer people will die this way. As a further point, this stupid conflict has created a influx of refugees into Europe which has been part of the overall propulsion of the far right within European states. I mean Merkel admitting 1 million Syrians into Germany 3 months before Brexit might have been the difference between leave and remain. Erdogan now threatening another 3.6m might be the difference next time (if there is a next time). The US has basically waded into a war near enough on our doorstep, the destabilising consequences of which have been felt all over the continent. If Trump's departure ends this, allows Assad and Putin to stamp it out and finally put the issue to rest, then maybe that's actually just for the best. I'm not saying Trump had any manner of thoughts along these lines when he left, but unintentionally, this may be the best course of action. If Russia protects the Kurds, then I think it probably is. So am I overlooking something? Edited October 14, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44881 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 My twitter feed is full of pictures of dead Kurdish children. Trump did not do the right thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44881 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Also, there are reports of women being dragged from their cars and raped before being killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: My twitter feed is full of pictures of dead Kurdish children. Trump did not do the right thing here. What would the right thing have been? War with Turkey? EDIT - this isn't a challenge, it's just a question. Edited October 14, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Turkey wouldn’t have dared to invade with Trump’s premature pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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