Syria

[Howmanheyman 33203]

So, the Californian atrocity appears to be an act of islamic terrorism. Terrifying to think what could happen in the US if a few cells became established, considering the easy access to automatic weaponry there.

 

Meanwhile, the Times I'm reading says that IS has firmly established itself in Afghanistan, opening up another front. This is so fucked.

Haven't really been following this as I've had my mind elsewhere. I'm sure I heard initially that the bloke had had an argument then left and returned with the lass shooting people? As is the case with a few of these nutters, I get the impression the religion part is a bit of an excuse.

[Renton 21624]

Haven't really been following this as I've had my mind elsewhere. I'm sure I heard initially that the bloke had had an argument then left and returned with the lass shooting people? As is the case with a few of these nutters, I get the impression the religion part is a bit of an excuse.

Both him and his wife were just standard nutters? They had just come back from Saudi and claimed allegiance to ISIS. They were clearly radicalized. I reckon they were planning something bigger (cache of bombs found) but someone offended them (very easily done) triggering them to act prematurely.

 

Stop making excuses, this was clearly religiously inspired. The CIA think so anyway.

[Rayvin 5223]

Does sound like it was an ISIS inspired attack. That said, no one has officially confirmed it yet to my knowledge.

 

Heaven help us now that we're bombing them too. Although I'll believe that our government is taking this seriously only when attention turns to Saudi.

[Happy Face 29]

So, the Californian atrocity appears to be an act of islamic terrorism. Terrifying to think what could happen in the US if a few cells became established, considering the easy access to automatic weaponry there.

As terrifying as the 350+ other mass shootings perpetrated this year by non-muslims.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

I wonder how forgiving everyone will turn out to be if or when the civilian massacres start kicking off on our shores.

[Renton 21624]

As terrifying as the 350+ other mass shootings perpetrated this year by non-muslims.

This is precisely the idiotic response I'd expect from you HF. I guess probably more people have been murdered in France last year than were killed a couple of weeks ago, so why are we so bothered that the US's worst massacre since Sandy Hook was ISIS inspired?

 

Honestly, its pathetic. There's always going to be background noise of nutters. But if you can't tell the difference between that threat and this, I despair. Entirely predictable though.

[Renton 21624]

I wonder how forgiving everyone will turn out to be if or when the civilian massacres start kicking off on our shores.

Well, since half of this board are left of Ken Livingstone, I know who'll they'll blame.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Renton

[Howmanheyman 33203]

Both him and his wife were just standard nutters? They had just come back from Saudi and claimed allegiance to ISIS. They were clearly radicalized. I reckon they were planning something bigger (cache of bombs found) but someone offended them (very easily done) triggering them to act prematurely.

 

Stop making excuses, this was clearly religiously inspired. The CIA think so anyway.

Errm, I said I haven't really been following this. Fucking chill out, man! I'm making excuses for nobody. I'd be interested to know if they were rounded individuals before they decided to go to Saudi or if they were loonies/social outcasts or felt they didn't belong?

[Howmanheyman 33203]

I wonder how forgiving everyone will turn out to be if or when the civilian massacres start kicking off on our shores.

:lol:

 

Has the drugs went to your head? Who has been forgiving these horrible bastards?

[Renton 21624]

Errm, I said I haven't really been following this. Fucking chill out, man! I'm making excuses for nobody. I'd be interested to know if they were rounded individuals before they decided to go to Saudi or if they were loonies/social outcasts or felt they didn't belong?

Fair enough, wasn't really directed at you, but the mentality of making excuses is ingrained on this forum, see HF's response. What do you define as a loony? A person brainwashed by the cult of ISIS? If so, yes, they were loonies. If you mean mentally ill then no, they weren't.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Renton

[Gemmill 44879]

You hungover by any chance Renton?

[Howmanheyman 33203]

This 'war on terror' and 'declaring war on Isis/AQ' etc. Fuck sake, man. Don't legitimise them, don't give them any more kudos than they've already given themselves. They're very dangerous criminals engaging in terrorist acts.

[Renton 21624]

You hungover by any chance Renton?

No.

[Gemmill 44879]

Just raging against the Toontastic machine then.

[Howmanheyman 33203]

Fair enough, wasn't really directed at you, but the mentality of making excuses is ingrained on this forum, see HF's response. What do you define as a loony? A person brainwashed by the cult of ISIS? If so, yes, they were loonies. If you mean mentally ill then no, they weren't.

To me a loonie is a loonie. The sad bastards that go shooting kids in US colleges etc aren't a million times different from the sad bastards who decide Allah is guiding them through the videos they watch encouraging them to jihad. What's the difference between a loner who doesn't kill to one who does? What's the difference between one of the millions of Muslims who don't turn jihadi to the ones who do? They're nutters pure and simple with weak minds.

[Renton 21624]

To me a loonie is a loonie. The sad bastards that go shooting kids in US colleges etc aren't a million times different from the sad bastards who decide Allah is guiding them through the videos they watch encouraging them to jihad. What's the difference between a loner who doesn't kill to one who does? What's the difference between one of the millions of Muslims who don't turn jihadi to the ones who do? They're nutters pure and simple with weak minds.

Well no, I think it's massively more complex than that, but if you're not concerned by the threat is Islamic terrorism, and the unfortunate ramifications of this, then carry on.

 

Thing is, I hear you when you say you don't want to give ISIS legitimacy and you have a point. But this is not a benign ideology. Us sticking our heads in the sand, and worse, ignoring the reality of the situation, isn't going to make it go away. It's going to get worse, and we need to recognize this and somehow deal wiith it.

[Happy Face 29]

Love how much I get told I'm misrepresenting people but there's no qualms about making up shit about me excusing mass shootings.

[Alex 35081]

I wonder how forgiving everyone will turn out to be if or when the civilian massacres start kicking off on our shores.

If that does happen point scoring in here will be what really matters

[Alex 35081]

Love how much I get told I'm misrepresenting people but there's no qualms about making up shit about me excusing mass shootings.

Your probably hoping it does happen so you can say you were right

[Gemmill 44879]

Haven't really been following this as I've had my mind elsewhere.

How IS that house move going?

[Renton 21624]

Love how much I get told I'm misrepresenting people but there's no qualms about making up shit about me excusing mass shootings.

That's a misrepresentation! I never said you excused mass shootings. It was your predictable response to suggest equivalence that I was getting at.

[Rayvin 5223]

Renton, just out of interest, presuming you know that ISIS can't be defeated by airstrikes, and that you feel Islam is the root cause here by far, how would you propose we deal with it? I don't see any way of combating it on our shores other than taking a very hard and divisive line against Muslims. (Other than obviously not bombing people in the middle east and working on diplomatic means for improving the quality of life and educational standards for people who feel that ISIS offers them something). Assuming the latter is out as lefty nonsense, presumably a police state is the answer? Unless you have a middle ground that isn't just going to be a continuation of exactly what's happening as a result of not going far enough?

[Happy Face 29]

That's a misrepresentation! I never said you excused mass shootings. It was your predictable response to suggest equivalence that I was getting at.

 

 

the mentality of making excuses is ingrained on this forum, see HF's response.

 

If you're satisfied that I've excused nothing then we're back to the question of why you prefer to show discrimination against one religion. I'd say it's a better mentality to look at events equally. That's been the crux of our discussion from the Saudi thread, through Paris, Syria and and now this shooting in the US.

 

My view is that mass shooting number 351 is as bad as the earlier 350 (kill count obviously causing more or less devastation). If the first 350 bring up questions of mental health, availability of weaponry, upbringing, religion, politics, workplace relations etc, then shooting number 351 should raise the same questions too. I don't agree with blaming the individuals that perpetrate 350 mass shootings, whatever their religion, family, private situation.... but then blaming the entire social group that the 351st killer belonged to for their rampage.

[Renton 21624]

 

 

 

If you're satisfied that I've excused nothing then we're back to the question of why you prefer to show discrimination against one religion. I'd say it's a better mentality to look at events equally. That's been the crux of our discussion from the Saudi thread, through Paris, Syria and and now this shooting in the US.

 

My view is that mass shooting number 351 is as bad as the earlier 350 (kill count obviously causing more or less devastation). If the first 350 bring up questions of mental health, availability of weaponry, upbringing, religion, politics, workplace relations etc, then shooting number 351 should raise the same questions too. I don't agree with blaming the individuals that perpetrate 350 mass shootings, whatever their religion, family, private situation.... but then blaming the entire social group that the 351st killer belonged to for their rampage.

But I wasn't saying you were excusing the shootings, I was saying you were excusing the role of militant Islam in it, which by implication in your first post, you were. "Just another shooting". Well no, it's not, it's something much more sinister and isn't a US phenomenon, it's a global one.

[Renton 21624]

Renton, just out of interest, presuming you know that ISIS can't be defeated by airstrikes, and that you feel Islam is the root cause here by far, how would you propose we deal with it? I don't see any way of combating it on our shores other than taking a very hard and divisive line against Muslims. (Other than obviously not bombing people in the middle east and working on diplomatic means for improving the quality of life and educational standards for people who feel that ISIS offers them something). Assuming the latter is out as lefty nonsense, presumably a police state is the answer? Unless you have a middle ground that isn't just going to be a continuation of exactly what's happening as a result of not going far enough?

Do I have the solutions? No, nobody has. But a good start would be to recognise the problem, and not apologise for it because of western imperialism or because other groups have also done bad things.

 

Like I said in my first post today, if the US does develop a problem with radicalisation then it is truly in the shit. How do you tackle it, do you appease it or confront it head on by restricting civil liberties, perhaps selectively? I'd hate to see the latter but that's the way we're heading.