Dr Gloom 21813 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 the very british bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Imagine being comfortable with the murder of civilians just because it'll make relations with Russia a little warmer. smh Your "best PM in my life" stated that Russia bombing syria wouldn't work & would only radicalise the region further. How are our bombs different? Do they cough awkwardly, apologise, and then vaporise hospitals? Bit of a prick for your first paragraph. Russia were going after Assads opposition, not Isis. Due to the ongoing talks in Vienna (and the Russian plane bomb), Putin is coming on board with the "Isis first", strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 And with regard to British bombs, our track record since attacking Isis in Iraq is excellent with hardly any civilian targets killed in over a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10743 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Bit of a prick for your first paragraph. Russia were going after Assads opposition, not Isis. Due to the ongoing talks in Vienna (and the Russian plane bomb), Putin is coming on board with the "Isis first", strategy. Bit of a prick? How? You're the one backing Airstrikes that your own dear leader has said would be fruitless. You're just blindly drinking the Tory kool-aid and reciting the party rhetoric. It's pathetic. "Bit of a prick"? Christ, draw a line down your scalp and you and a bellend are indistinguishable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21813 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Bit of a prick for your first paragraph. Russia were going after Assads opposition, not Isis. Due to the ongoing talks in Vienna (and the Russian plane bomb), Putin is coming on board with the "Isis first", strategy. but then what? even if we work with the russian, defeat isis and eventually remove assad, what next? you're left with the very real prospect of another Iraq. Once western troops withdraw, there will almost certainly still be prolonged sectarian conflict. the scenario you set out sounds lovely but there's about as much chance of a herd of unicorns trotting through rakka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21813 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Bit of a prick? How? You're the one backing Airstrikes that your own dear leader has said would be fruitless. You're just blindly drinking the Tory kool-aid and reciting the party rhetoric. It's pathetic. "Bit of a prick"? Christ, draw a line down your scalp and you and a bellend are indistinguishable. he's more of a cone head than a bell head though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Bit of a prick? How? You're the one backing Airstrikes that your own dear leader has said would be fruitless. You're just blindly drinking the Tory kool-aid and reciting the party rhetoric. It's pathetic. "Bit of a prick"? Christ, draw a line down your scalp and you and a bellend are indistinguishable. Prick because I never said I was comfortable with the murder of civilians or that we should murder them to be mates with Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's not just air strikes though is it. There's the UN agreement. The Vienna diplomacy leading to Syrian reforms within 6 months. There's the growing cooperation between the west and Russia in Syria. Doing nothing seems a non starter given the past murder of Brits and the ongoing attempts to attack us here. While it's far from a perfect situation, the plan as I see it is a coming together of the worlds powers to contain and diminish Isis, allowing a ceasefire in Syria between Assad and opposition. This is intended to allow the rule of law to return to Syria, refugees to return home and reforms within the Syrian government. Eventually all followed by Assad bowing out. Of course not of it might work but the warming of relations behind the scenes between Russia and the West gives it a better chance. Not perfect but better than just hoping it goes away. Aye, Russia and the Chinese will agree to Assad bowing out. Also, who or what is going to replace him? You think there's some enlightened liberal democratic government just waiting in the wings? Jesus fucking wept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10743 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's bonkers though. The enemies we want to fight, will not be defeated by conventional warfare. It's wetwork and diplomacy and policing and long-term plans. Fucking childish to just expect blowing the shit out of an already devastated country is going to do anything but foster further resentment and animosity towards the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 but then what? even if we work with the russian, defeat isis and eventually remove assad, what next? you're left with the very real prospect of another Iraq. Once western troops withdraw, there will almost certainly still be prolonged sectarian conflict. the scenario you set out sounds lovely but there's about as much chance of a herd of unicorns trotting through rakka I'm not saying it's perfect or will work but imo it's better than doing nothing and letting Isis control the whole region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I actually thought Philip Hammond spoke well when he was interviewed making the case for the action but the one glaringly obvious issue was the assumption some united Arab force is going to come along and provide the necessary ground troops. Like that'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10743 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm not saying it's perfect or will work but imo it's better than doing nothing and letting Isis control the whole region. It's not a binary state though is it? The options aren't Airstrikes/Nothing. There are an unfathomable number of options available to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's bonkers though. The enemies we want to fight, will not be defeated by conventional warfare. It's wetwork and diplomacy and policing and long-term plans. Fucking childish to just expect blowing the shit out of an already devastated country is going to do anything but foster further resentment and animosity towards the West. Diplomacy won't work with Isis and we don't have the time for long term plans. Had we not acted last year in Iraq supporting the Kurds, Iraq would already have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The whole point of the debate was so gibbering imbeciles could bray their relish about killing people to the media. Typical British imperialist conflict glorification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's not a binary state though is it? The options aren't Airstrikes/Nothing. There are an unfathomable number of options available to us. Precisely what I said in my first post today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The UK action is basically symbolic anyway. It's about 12 planes isn't it? What a crock of shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10743 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Diplomacy won't work with Isis and we don't have the time for long term plans. Had we not acted last year in Iraq supporting the Kurds, Iraq would already have fallen. Who mentioned diplomacy with ISIS? And of course we have time. What's the rush? There will be terrorist attacks whether we blow shit up or not, so why not improve our security & try something that doesn't cost the lives of innocent civilians which will undoubtedly swell the ranks of ISIS and their ilk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The 'looking to be doing something' is a poor strategy and was rightly eviscerated by Julian Lewis bloke from the Defence and Foreign affairs committee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDtV1h2f2Uw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21308 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The whole point of the debate was so gibbering imbeciles could bray their relish about killing people to the media. Typical British imperialist conflict glorification. Really? I get the impression everyone is sick of the situation in the ME and we just want a solution. After a decade of fuck ups there is no easy solution though, maybe no solution at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 the very british bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The 'looking to be doing something' is a poor strategy and was rightly eviscerated by Julian Lewis bloke from the Defence and Foreign affairs committee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDtV1h2f2Uw Aye, he was spot on. The idea that doing something is better than doing nothing hasn't been borne out by recent examples of Western intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Really? I get the impression everyone is sick of the situation in the ME and we just want a solution. After a decade of fuck ups there is no easy solution though, maybe no solution at all.Well judging by the press reaction from the usual suspects, there's the usual praise the flag bullshit being spouted. People describing Benn's speech as churchillian being a good example. (And ironic given he ordered chemical weapons to be used in Iraq in a previous clusterfuck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 but then what? even if we work with the russian, defeat isis and eventually remove assad, what next? you're left with the very real prospect of another Iraq. Once western troops withdraw, there will almost certainly still be prolonged sectarian conflict. the scenario you set out sounds lovely but there's about as much chance of a herd of unicorns trotting through rakka Is this the 70,000 Unicorns strategy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Is this the 70,000 Unicorns strategy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) It's not a binary state though is it? The options aren't Airstrikes/Nothing. There are an unfathomable number of options available to us. Yup there are a myriad of options we're refusing to take or talk about because it will hurt our 'allies'. One would have thought cutting off the logistics and finance would be a priority but then we would have to start telling the truth. We'll be handing over these weapons to Isis my frog friend... Je ne comprends pas! Edited December 3, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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