Syria

[NJS 4371]

Also I'd ask Benn if he's so keen on moral action against cunts, I presume he would support action against Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

[Christmas Tree 4689]

[Howmanheyman 32728]

She'll be backing a return to Blairite bollocks when Corbyn fails.

 

She lost me when she voted for the welfare bill.

My local mp voted for the welfare bill too the traitorous cunt.

[Renton 21308]

"Even"

 

Like I've shown some tolerance for isis at any point.

 

Hypothetically I'd like to see paedophiles wiped out too. Please don't take this as an endorsement for bombing Middlesbrough

Point is this doesn't seem to be a moral bone of contention but a practical one. Hence surprised at the disappointment of Bridget's vote.

 

Welfare bill is much less acceptable, makes her a hypocrite. Suppose she may have felt intimidated by the whip, but still.

[Gemmill 44393]

This board is surprisingly intolerant to alternative points of view, which is ironic.

I trust you're front and centre in your thoughts when you say this; a man who, by his own admission, couldn't accept his doctor wearing a particular type of clothing.

[Gemmill 44393]

"Even"

 

Like I've shown some tolerance for isis at any point.

 

Hypothetically I'd like to see paedophiles wiped out too. Please don't take this as an endorsement for bombing Middlesbrough

[Renton 21308]

I trust you're front and centre in your thoughts when you say this; a man who, by his own admission, couldn't accept his doctor wearing a particular type of clothing.

Call that intolerance if you like, I think the human need to communicate through face contact trumps that. France agrees. Surveys in the UK show 85% of doctors agree. You're in the minority here.

[Gemmill 44393]

Call that intolerance if you like, I think the human need to communicate through face contact trumps that. France agrees. Surveys in the UK show 85% of doctors agree. You're in the minority here.

Er yeah, I definitely will thanks. Aligning yourself with the majority of the UK population doesn't help you out either.

[Renton 21308]

Er yeah, I definitely will thanks. Aligning yourself with the majority of the UK population doesn't help you out either.

Or the vast majority of doctors?

 

And this coming from the man who doesn't like Indians speaking their native tongue.

[Gemmill 44393]

Not when they've asked me to show them round MY house and they're both fluent in English.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

The only way to really get rid of Isis's hold on the large swathes of Iraq and Syria they are occupying is through a co-ordinated and broad coalition of allied troops on the ground, working together with the moderate rebels, if such a thing even exists, and probably also joining forces with Assad in the short term. How appealling!

 

There's clearly zero appetite for another invasion after the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos. Who knows what kind of instability it could create? I keep hearing removing Isis is the first step towards democracy in Syria. I'm not sure this part of the world is ready for democracy yet. It needs stability first. Answers in the back of a postcard about what the best course of action is to achieve that - stay out of it and let them get on with it or become embroiled in another potentially lengthy and expensive conflict, which could have further repercussions for us?

 

The whole situation is basically fucked and I don't see how even more bombs falling from the sky - and inevitably taking out more civilians on the way - is going to do anything but exacerbate the problem.

 

Anyone got any answers? Because the politicians certainly don't.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[Gemmill 44393]

Like I said last night, the politicians haven't spent the time to even consider a coordinated strategy, they've just adopted the "we need to be seen to be doing something" approach. I'd rather just let them get on with it and write the middle east off as its own problem, than do what we're doing now.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Political engagement with Assad (and Russia) to support internal policing and degradation of Isis.

 

Obviously this would be embarrassing and distasteful for the west in light of earlier events in 2013 and that, so better to bomb the shit out of it and keep our fingers crossed.

[Renton 21308]

In truth, what difference will this make? All we're doing is extending our mandate in Iraq. Not sure 6 1970s jets will make any difference at all. We'll be a target for Islamic terrorists either way. Maybe it is just to show solidarity with the the US and France, is this such a bad thing? Ateod not much has changed imo, we're fucked if we do and fucked if we don't.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

What about if we left it, and hypothetically speaking, air strikes remained ineffective, isis continued to expand its territory and gain support and then we get to a point where there are terrorist attacks like the one we saw in Paris on European soil every month.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you but is there ever a right time to get involved in a conflict?

 

Edit @@Gemmill

Edited December 3, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21813]

 

Political engagement with Assad (and Russia) to support internal policing and degradation of Isis.

 

Obviously this would be embarrassing and distasteful for the west in light of earlier events in 2013 and that, so better to bomb the shit out of it and keep our fingers crossed.

That's why there's no answer. Maybe the lesser of two evils but you're talking about a leader who ordered troops to open fire on peaceful democracy protestors, who has used chemical weapons on his own people and relentlessly barrel bombed innocent civilians.

[Gemmill 44393]

What about if we left it, and hypothetically speaking, air strikes remained ineffective, isis continued to expand its territory and gain support and then we get to a point where there are terrorist attacks like the one we saw in Paris on European soil every month.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you but is there ever a right time to get involved in a conflict?

 

Edit @Gemmil

Well if that's gonna happen anyway, why get involved. Adding our six planes to the mix isn't going to be the difference between that happening and it not happening.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

Well if that's gonna happen anyway, why get involved. Adding our six planes to the mix isn't going to be the difference between that happening and it not happening.

That's where I am with this. I'm not really sure what we have to gain by getting involved. And a fuck load of money that could have been used to reinforce our creaking public services is being frittered away. Austerity Britain doesn't extend to pointless military exercises, it seems.

[Renton 21308]

The jets are already in daily use in Iraq.

[Happy Face 29]

That's why there's no answer. Maybe the lesser of two evils but you're talking about a leader who ordered troops to open fire on peaceful democracy protestors, who has used chemical weapons on his own people and relentlessly barrel bombed innocent civilians.

 

We all know that, but if Isis are gone, then someone else needs to take those areas, and I assume that without any troops our hope is that Assad and his forces will be the ones to take it back.

 

Attacking in an un-coordinated fashion on this assumption saves face for politicians and makes it more palatable not to be working with a monster. But long term it only creates further radicalisation as the west once again very publicly goes into the middle east with guns blazing.

[Christmas Tree 4689]

It's not just air strikes though is it.

 

There's the UN agreement.

The Vienna diplomacy leading to Syrian reforms within 6 months.

There's the growing cooperation between the west and Russia in Syria.

 

Doing nothing seems a non starter given the past murder of Brits and the ongoing attempts to attack us here.

 

While it's far from a perfect situation, the plan as I see it is a coming together of the worlds powers to contain and diminish Isis, allowing a ceasefire in Syria between Assad and opposition.

 

This is intended to allow the rule of law to return to Syria, refugees to return home and reforms within the Syrian government.

 

Eventually all followed by Assad bowing out.

 

Of course not of it might work but the warming of relations behind the scenes between Russia and the West gives it a better chance.

 

Not perfect but better than just hoping it goes away.

[Gemmill 44393]

It's not just air strikes though is it.

 

There's the UN agreement.

The Vienna diplomacy leading to Syrian reforms within 6 months.

There's the growing cooperation between the west and Russia in Syria.

 

Doing nothing seems a non starter given the past murder of Brits and the ongoing attempts to attack us here.

 

While it's far from a perfect situation, the plan as I see it is a coming together of the worlds powers to contain and diminish Isis, allowing a ceasefire in Syria between Assad and opposition.

 

This is intended to allow the rule of law to return to Syria, refugees to return home and reforms within the Syrian government.

 

Eventually all followed by Assad bowing out.

 

Of course not of it might work but the warming of relations behind the scenes between Russia and the West gives it a better chance.

 

Not perfect but better than just hoping it goes away.

There's no strategy in place for any of that.

[Christmas Tree 4689]

There's no strategy in place for any of that.

It's all happened / happening.

 

These are the countries involved in Vienna.

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Christmas Tree

[Gemmill 44393]

Ok then. Let's get through dropping bombs and see what the plan is to return Syria to stability. Then we'll see if you know what you're talking about.

[The Fish 10743]

Imagine being comfortable with the murder of civilians just because it'll make relations with Russia a little warmer. smh

 

Your "best PM in my life" stated that Russia bombing syria wouldn't work & would only radicalise the region further. How are our bombs different? Do they cough awkwardly, apologise, and then vaporise hospitals?