Rayvin 5183 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 This thread.  HF keeps swinging, regardless of who comes in, and toonotl just cannot for the life of him resist the temptation to dive on his posts.  Renton looks like he's about to get sucked back in as well...  I reckon all of this has been necessary and cathartic though  And we'll be bombing Syria either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015  Us Brits still more worried about traffic than starting another war  EDIT: Yes I realise only one of those links has been followed by me as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17079 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Just listening to the debate on 5live.....some SNP gadge trying to get the government to tell the house the make up of the 70k "moderate locals" that we're going to seemingly use to smash Isis...not getting anywhere, until some Doris stood up and said "well I've been there and it's only 10-15k" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21813 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 This thread.  HF keeps swinging, regardless of who comes in, and toonotl just cannot for the life of him resist the temptation to dive on his posts.  Renton looks like he's about to get sucked back in as well...  I reckon all of this has been necessary and cathartic though  And we'll be bombing Syria either way.  my trigger finger is itchy. maintaining a dignified silence as this debate continues to unfold is proving tricky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedfernMag 0 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) This is worth a read from the New York Times, it gives a good insight into the attempts to establish communitys in northern Syria. The writer comes across sounding like a bit of a missionary in places, and there is the problematic legacy associated with some of the cult of personality leftovers of the politics involved, but a positive and well written story nonetheless.  One of the safer crossings into Syria is at a small town called Fishkhabour, in the far northwestern corner of Iraq. In a whitewashed shack on the shore of the Tigris River, an official from Iraq’s Kurdistan Regional Government pointed out the window toward a pontoon bridge that bobbed in the cola-colored water. A year ago, 30,000 refugees fleeing an Islamic State massacre in Syria walked for 30 hours before crossing it in the opposite direction, half-starved, half-dead, terrorized. The official told me and my interpreter, Mohammed Ismael Rasool, that a few days before we arrived, an Italian volunteer was arrested by a border patrolman while trying to swim back toward Iraq. ‘‘Don’t change your mind,’’ he said, wagging a finger.  A Dream of Secular Utopia in ISIS’ Backyard Edited December 2, 2015 by RedfernMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Justin Welby has announced his support for UK air strikes in Syria, telling the House of Lords today that the criteria of a just war have been met. Â Speaking in the House as MPs debate the issue today, the Archbishop of Canterbury said: "The just war criteria have to my mind been met, but while they are necessary, they are not by themselves sufficient in action of this kind" Â Â Joint President of the Council of Christians and Jews showing support for the bombing campaign in a muslim country. Whatever happened to turn the other cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21308 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Â Â Joint President of the Council of Christians and Jews showing support for the bombing campaign in a muslim country. Whatever happened to turn the other cheek. Is the argument for bombing not self defence? Pretty sure that's acceptable to most Christians and Jews. Â HF, hypothetically, if western military intervention could be successfully used against IS, would you be in favour of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Is the argument for bombing not self defence? Pretty sure that's acceptable to most Christians and Jews. Â HF, hypothetically, if western military intervention could be successfully used against IS, would you be in favour of it? Â Yeah, hypothetically. Â I agree with Welby who... Â Â says a policy of air strikes alone "plays into the hands of ISIL and other jihadists in the region". He says such groups have an "apocalyptic vision", adding "Without a far more comprehensive approach we confirm their dreadful belief that what they are doing is the will of God." Â Â It seems strange of him therefore to support a bombing campaign when nothing more comprehensive has been proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Millions of Christians believe in an apocalyptic vision tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6986 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Looks like it's happening with a majority of 100+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4689 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Hillary Benns speech. Wow! Â A very powerful speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Â Learned from the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21813 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 He's absolutely right that they're fascists. They hate everything about us, particularly our democracy, freedom, our tolerance, - all things the UK hs fought to uphold and values the Labour Party stands for. Â I'm still not convinced UK air strikes are going to achieve an awful lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44393 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's terrifying. I work at a bank that would take months devising a strategy to launch a new product. These cunts take a day to decide to drop bombs on another country with absolutely nothing in the way of a strategy beyond that. Let's get to bombing and we'll think about that other stuff later. Â Well let's see how long it takes for this one to become another Iraq/Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydnator 45 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 So Cameron condemns Russia for bombing Syria in October as it would 'lead to further radicalisation and increased terrorism', yet is all for it 2 months later? Fuck politics, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32728 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I see the toontastic heroine, Bridgette voted for air strikes. Fucking pleased I wasn't around in her day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44393 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Did she really? Ugh. Where's the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32728 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's around somewhere. Going to bed. Guten nacht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 He's absolutely right that they're fascists. They hate everything about us, particularly our democracy, freedom, our tolerance, - all things the UK hs fought to uphold and values the Labour Party stands for. Â You're absolutely right. Â But that has no bearing whatsoever on why we're doing this. 66 Labour MPs voted for it because they think it'll make them look credible and that there will be votes in it. The Tories voted for it at best because our involvement will be significant in international relations management with other foreign powers. Absolutely no one, not even Hillary fucking Benn, thinks that we're doing this because of a moral imperative to combat fucking fascism. If that were true, why aren't we doing that everywhere? If we really cared about terrorism, why don't we just take out Saudi Arabia, the main source of funding and Islamic religious brainwashing? Â I just wish they'd come out and say it. I could get behind shit like this if someone came out and said 'look, ISIS aren't that big a deal really, but our involvement in a pointless bombing campaign is important for making the UK look credible at the international level in terms of militaristic involvement'. I'd think it was cold, but I could at least accept that governments have to make hard decisions to look after our interests. And probably be grateful that I don't have to do the same thing. Â I don't think it's about protecting us, because they can't protect us from this. Until Islam moves past this particular phase, which we could enable but are choosing to prevent, there is nothing our governments can do to solve this (without looking like fascists themselves). So we're going to go and blow up some crazed religious fuckwits in Syria, along with the children they will hide behind. Fucking well done everyone. No wonder the whole world despises us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ 0 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Did she really? Ugh. Where's the list? http://ukgeneralelection2020.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/the-66-labour-mps-who-voted-for.html  Can't dress it up. Fucking disappointed by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Think about the constituency she represents for a second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17079 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Career politician votes for what's best for their career. Quel fuckin surprise..... Â Great post @@Rayvin ..... the vote wasn't properly about bombing, its just the start gun for a looming land war which will come when a republican is in the Whitehouse in 2017 iyam. Also Hilary Benn putting down a marker for being the next Labour leader?....quite a good orator in spite of the huge generalisations in his content and a tone of grandstanding histrionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21308 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Career politician votes for what's best for their career. Quel fuckin surprise..... Â Great post @@Rayvin ..... the vote wasn't properly about bombing, its just the start gun for a looming land war which will come when a republican is in the Whitehouse in 2017 iyam. Also Hilary Benn putting down a marker for being the next Labour leader?....quite a good orator in spite of the huge generalisations in his content and a tone of grandstanding histrionics. Don't see how this will further her career. This board is surprisingly intolerant to alternative points of view, which is ironic. On a pragmatic level, I'd like us to stay away from this because I can't see any good coming from our involvement. However, I would love to see ISIS wiped from the face of the earth. Even HF agreed this would be good hypothetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 She'll be backing a return to Blairite bollocks when Corbyn fails. Â She lost me when she voted for the welfare bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 "Even" Â Like I've shown some tolerance for isis at any point. Â Hypothetically I'd like to see paedophiles wiped out too. Please don't take this as an endorsement for bombing Middlesbrough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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