OTF 7295 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 that's some grip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) As it happens I thought Tiote looked a bit back to his old self yesterday. Much more assured and less panicky on the ball. Personally still not won over by Santon or Debuchy yet either. Hope to see a bit better from both of them ASSP. Edited July 24, 2013 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 As it happens I thought Tiote looked a bit back to his old self yesterday. Much more assured and less panicky on the ball.Personally still not won over by Santon or Debuchy yet either. Hope to see a bit better from both of them ASSP. Have you read the gone fishing post where man u and man city fans mention Santon as a player they'd have in their team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Have you read the gone fishing post where man u and man city fans mention Santon as a player they'd have in their team? I haven't. I can only assume that they haven't watched a lot of him at Newcastle. For me, I would like to see some real end product from him this season and some better positioning sense as a defender. Seemed to go through a spell last season where he was always getting caught out and as such we conceded goals. I'm not saying he's shite or anything like that, just that I'd like to see solid performances at both ends this season. That said I wonder if he is still first choice given last nights line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Have you read the gone fishing post where man u and man city fans mention Santon as a player they'd have in their team? Fans of other clubs often only notice their opposisitions good points though. Good footballer whos been told to play out of posistion iyam. He's an attacker with little defensive awareness. If he wants to be a left back at the top level he'll need to pick and choose his runs more carefully, and his teamates also need to cover for him when he does. That didnt help him last season tbf to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 He made some horrendous mistakes last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Steven (number one fan favorite super Geordie) Taylor has made horrendous mistakes regularly for the best part of a decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Steven (number one fan favorite super Geordie) Taylor has made horrendous mistakes regularly for the best part of a decade Do manu fans want him too?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Do manu fans want him too?? Just man city fans apparently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 On topic, I watched it last night and just saw the same team that shat themselves last year, doing the same stuff and also arguing with eath other. As posted before though, both Vuckic and Gouffran were our best players by a country mile and vuckic was only on a short time for the wrong positioned sissoko. Take what you want, but we shouldn't be conceding goals like that. Tiote and cabaye were our worst players imo. Cabaye was just shocking, his first touch was awful all game long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I haven't. I can only assume that they haven't watched a lot of him at Newcastle. For me, I would like to see some real end product from him this season and some better positioning sense as a defender. Seemed to go through a spell last season where he was always getting caught out and as such we conceded goals. I'm not saying he's shite or anything like that, just that I'd like to see solid performances at both ends this season. That said I wonder if he is still first choice given last nights line up. Learn the difference between a wingback & a full back and get back to me. Santon for long periods was the best player on the pitch & you clearly - A. Have no concept of the purpose of preseason B. Didn't watch any of the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Learn the difference between a wingback & a full back and get back to me. Santon for long periods was the best player on the pitch & you clearly - A. Have no concept of the purpose of preseason B. Didn't watch any of the second half. I'd like you to explain the difference to me actually, so we're in no doubt as to what you're getting at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I'd like you to explain the difference to me actually, so we're in no doubt as to what you're getting at... A fullback isn't going to be making the forward runs/overlapping the winger that Santon does - especially in Pardew's bastardised 4231. You'd expect a wingback to be help drive the attack - more so with 5 at the back though or a 433 (2nd half) so at the minute the way we are using him is simply daft given the criticisms he's afforded. Also we have thousands of people telling him to get forward and then telling him he's a shit at the back. He's a fine defender when he plays to defend - ask Cristiano Ronaldo. He was good last night & he was our best player for the first ten or so games last year but if the defense isn't stable don't expect that stability to come from the flanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 A fullback isn't going to be making the forward runs/overlapping the winger that Santon does - especially in Pardew's bastardised 4231. You'd expect a wingback to be help drive the attack - more so with 5 at the back though or a 433 (2nd half) so at the minute the way we are using him is simply daft given the criticisms he's afforded. Also we have thousands of people telling him to get forward and then telling him he's a shit at the back. He's a fine defender when he plays to defend - ask Cristiano Ronaldo. He was good last night & he was our best player for the first ten or so games last year but if the defense isn't stable don't expect that stability to come from the flanks. To me, any system that has a narrow 3 in the middle needs overlapping fullbacks, regardless of what you call them. What system did we play last night?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I disagree again, my understanding of wing back / full back is: Wingback is a defender & a winger with defensive duties, usually players drop back to fill the gap. E.G. Leighton Baines / Gary Neville etc. His job is to bring the ball forward himself and distribute accordingly - he's supposed to pass off the ball when he comes under pressure but is free to go all the way to the touchline and cross. Fullback is a wide defender, who's area of operation is from the touchline to the halfway line only . E.G. Phil Neville. If he passes the half way line he's not doing his job , unless it really is totally clear ahead of him, where he's still expected to pass it off - not go to the touchline and chuck in a cross. Wingbacks play in teams who either have very advanced Left sided midfielders (who really play LW , RW but a little behind the strikers) or defensive wide midfielders (rare as rocking horse shit nowadays). Fullbacks play in teams who have attacking midfielders / wingers in front of them. Pardew likes to mix the two and expect his wingers to be defenders also - e.g Jonas and Ben Arfa - and that , for me, is where we go wrong (although arguably Jonas is a defensive Left sided midfielder now, as his crossing is pointless and his pace isn't quite as good). Lol, we could be here all day. Edited July 24, 2013 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Reminds me of a mate who went ballistic when I called Green day pop/punk rather than punk/pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 heh yeah, they are pop/punk though, so tell him to shove it They are far more pop than punk. Pop means popular music right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Tom & Scoobos.. so its 442= fullbacks everything else=wingbacks. Someone should tell the likes of Nigel Winterburn, Lee Dixon, our very own Kenny Samson in his pomp, John Beresford or any other fullback who always got forward and attacked and who for a large part of their careers played in a rigid 442 with wide players directly infront of them, see also the recent NUFC as a 442 with A. Fullback & Jonas Guttierez. As far as I'm concerned,wingback was a phrase used when 352 was common i.e. in the mid to late 90s in this country. I mentioned this the other day,its widely considered Sir Alf Ramsey invented the modern overlapping fullback in the mid 60s. Theyve been around a long time and if youve got players good enough to do it and the teamates willing to cover their forward runs the system is irrelevent, as is what you call them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) nah it doesnt equate to formation does it? I'm not saying I'm right mind, just debating. You can have a 442 with wingbacks can't you? You can even have 442 with wingbacks and attacking midfielders if you want to overload (Man u did this a lot a few years ago), but they've got to be very good and usually come with 2 DMF . I also thought Wingbacks came when 5-3-2 became popular, not 352 - 3 5 2 is defensive wingers right? as in the players aren't defenders starting from the back but wingers who defend. (WingBACKS mean to me that they start at the backline). In fact - Yahoo answers wins http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127040654AAUg9F2 (I know its shit, just saying for a laff). Edited July 24, 2013 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17246 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) nah it doesnt equate to formation does it? I'm not saying I'm right mind, just debating. You can have a 442 with wingbacks can't you? You can even have 442 with wingbacks and attacking midfielders if you want to overload (Man u did this a lot a few years ago), but they've got to be very good and usually come with 2 DMF . I also thought Wingbacks came when 5-3-2 became popular, not 352 - 3 5 2 is defensive wingers right? as in the players aren't defenders starting from the back but wingers who defend. (WingBACKS mean to me that they start at the backline). In fact - Yahoo answers wins http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127040654AAUg9F2 (I know its shit, just saying for a laff). Not for me, its a phrase that came in with playing as you say either 3 in the middle or 3 at the back. Before that it was only fullbacks, and a lot of them got forward very well indeed...forgot another one, in fact the Daddy of the attacking fullback in the 80s, Stuart Pearce. Doubt if he played in anything other than a 442 his whiole time at Forest under Clough. Brilliant attacking footballer. Think people overcomplicate things at times. And Yahoo answers is mostly wrong too. This is a terminology thing, attacking wide defenders have existed for around 50 years, regrdless of what theyre called. Edited July 24, 2013 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Think people overcomplicate things at times. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30597 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Shane + crosses = GOALS!!!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 where does jose enrique at newcastle fit into this argument? always considered him a left back, but he bombed forward a lot. maybe he was a wing back after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Yeah, I think hes a wing back. He's a much improved player at Liverpool too imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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