Ayatollah Hermione 13760 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Williamson who's not very good and Taylor who is a liability due to how many injuries he picks up and is average at best. And Mr. Newcastle tripping over himself to welcome Kinnear to the club probably helped sway his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 We conceded 68 league goals last season with the centre backs we have now, cancelling the Douglas deal was downright fucking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 We conceded 68 league goals last season with the centre backs we have now, cancelling the Douglas deal was downright fucking stupid. It's not just about defenders though is it? You need to defend from the front in my eyes, so a lot of pressing high up the pitch, yet under Pardew the default for us as soon as we score seems to be sit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Manson 0 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 We conceded 68 league goals last season with the centre backs we have now, cancelling the Douglas deal was downright fucking stupid. This. 4 centre backs was never enough for all the games we had last season, and when one of them was Williamson we were criminally short. A free transfer cancelled ffs. I'm willing to bet Kinnear doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing so rather than worry about the extra paperwork on his first day, he cancelled the deal instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 We conceded 68 league goals last season with the centre backs we have now, cancelling the Douglas deal was downright fucking stupid. To be fair we had lots injuries, suspensions and games. On top of Tiote forgetting how to play football. Colochini only played just over half our games, which was massive factor - especially on Taylors performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) 4 centre backs was never enough for all the games we had last season, and when one of them was Williamson we were criminally short. A free transfer cancelled ffs. I'm willing to bet Kinnear doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing so rather than worry about the extra paperwork on his first day, he cancelled the deal instead. We dont have that many games this season and free transfers always come with inflated salaries and extorsonate agent fees. To put it in perspective we paid 6m in agent "fees" last summer and signed Anita and Ba. Edited July 19, 2013 by Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Anita and Ba? Last summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10672 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm not saying he's a tactical genius or anything - I'm not that daft. Just that he knows more than his fair bit about the game, certainly a lot more than people give him credit for. This was highlighted by him blocking the Douglas deal (we have 4 senior centre backs) and sanctioning the Bent deal (we have 1 senior striker). While this may seem obvious to most fans. Llambias wanted Douglas and not Bent - clearly the wrong decision for the football club, most probably based on resale value. I agree with your main point that we should have made our signings already, but the fact Llambias and Pardew couldn't agreed on targets meant it was always going to be a slow summer. Then Llambias (who does our transfer negotiations) walked. These are the reasons we've made no signings, not Kinnears going on holiday; or Ashley hiring Kinnear to have final say on transfers. That's nonsense. We need strength in depth at centre back (I say we have Colo, Mbiwa and Taylor a 4th would make sense and Douglas is arguably capable of being 3rd choice) and there are better strikers out there than Darren Bent. Kinnear's input so far has been embarrassing and his inaction so far, could cost this club dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Its a sad state of affairs when Spurs bring in Franco Baldini as their director and we're bringing in Joe fuckin' Kinnear. That shows you how different the owners of both football clubs view the clubs they're running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30166 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Kinnear barely has a brain, never mind a footballing brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7066 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Or, his brain is a football. A casey, circa 1976. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 That's nonsense. We need strength in depth at centre back (I say we have Colo, Mbiwa and Taylor a 4th would make sense and Douglas is arguably capable of being 3rd choice) and there are better strikers out there than Darren Bent. Kinnear's input so far has been embarrassing and his inaction so far, could cost this club dearly. I guess my point is only valid if it's a one or the other situation, which is how I read it - based largely on the assumption Douglas wanted 1st team wages and we didnt have the budget for both salaries. I also dont think you can pay that (again I guessing) sort of money to 3rd/4th choice. Who do you think we can realistically get that's better than Bent? We've been linked with quite a few French targets, but they've either turned us down in the past or went somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32604 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 It's not just about defenders though is it? You need to defend from the front in my eyes, so a lot of pressing high up the pitch, yet under Pardew the default for us as soon as we score seems to be sit back. That's a good point. We were shitting it having to go into a season with Ryan Taylor as our left back plus our two top scorers sold. The fact is that side grafted their nuts off for each other knowing they would have to. I feel last year that the defenders didn't have enough forward players/midfielders going the extra mile to defend from the front and yes I know the injuries were shit but there was a lot more passing the buck and 'not my fault Guv' going on than the previous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10672 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I guess my point is only valid if it's a one or the other situation, which is how I read it - based largely on the assumption Douglas wanted 1st team wages and we didnt have the budget for both salaries. I also dont think you can pay that (again I guessing) sort of money to 3rd/4th choice. Who do you think we can realistically get that's better than Bent? We've been linked with quite a few French targets, but they've either turned us down in the past or went somewhere else. Better than Bent that we could feasibly get? Or better thanBent that we could feasibly get within the new constraints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Better than Bent that we could feasibly get? Or better thanBent that we could feasibly get within the new constraints? I think most of the constraints walked out the door with Llambias. Remy is the only player I can think of, but my knowledge of European football is very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10672 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think most of the constraints walked out the door with Llambias. Remy is the only player I can think of, but my knowledge of European football is very limited. I'd say it was completely the opposite. It was once that we could sign anyone with resale value that was within an age bracket. I would say now the bar has been lowered. Ashley won't release the funds that he once did, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'd say it was completely the opposite. It was once that we could sign anyone with resale value that was within an age bracket. I would say now the bar has been lowered. Ashley won't release the funds that he once did, imo Our player catchment was simple - release clauses, last year of contract or free transfer. Anita - last year of contract Sissoko - last year of contract Mbiwa - extended contract on agreement the club would accept a nominal fee Cissé - had relegation release clause and they looked like they were going down Santon - dodgy knee Marveaux - free & injured Ba - Free Cabaye - release clause Gouffran - last year of contract We stalled on the Debuchy deal over 500k and walked away from the Cisse deal in the summer (we got lucky with Freiburg facing relegation) Clearly there was a resale value in the Debuchy deal at 5.5m, but Llambias new the price would only go down (as he was in the last year of his contract) and Debuchy really wanted to join us. It was this type of player blocking that I'll be glad to see the back of. There aren't that many players that fit into our former constraints, Bent certainly didnt. Who do you think we could get that's better than Bent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10672 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Our player catchment was simple - release clauses, last year of contract or free transfer. Anita - last year of contract Sissoko - last year of contract Mbiwa - extended contract on agreement the club would accept a nominal fee Cissé - had relegation release clause and they looked like they were going down Santon - dodgy knee Marveaux - free & injured Ba - Free Cabaye - release clause Gouffran - last year of contract We stalled on the Debuchy deal over 500k and walked away from the Cisse deal in the summer (we got lucky with Freiburg facing relegation) Clearly there was a resale value in the Debuchy deal at 5.5m, but Llambias new the price would only go down (as he was in the last year of his contract) and Debuchy really wanted to join us. It was this type of player blocking that I'll be glad to see the back of. There aren't that many players that fit into our former constraints, Bent certainly didnt. Who do you think we could get that's better than Bent? I can't believe you think it was Llambias putting the kibosh on deals. Bony is better than Bent, van Wolfswinkel is better than Bent and you're mad if you think a half competent man couldn't convince either of those two that we are a better option than their new employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 The jury is out on Bony and VanWolf..They will both find the PL much harder to score in. Plenty young guns have failed in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 6 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I can't believe you think it was Llambias putting the kibosh on deals. Bony is better than Bent, van Wolfswinkel is better than Bent and you're mad if you think a half competent man couldn't convince either of those two that we are a better option than their new employers. I'm surprised you think Ashley is some kind of puppet master, Llambias walking and the club targeting Bent certainly suggest Llambias felt strongly about the resale value rules we had in place. Maybe he has Stockholm syndrome? The options you suggest remind me of Fulham going for Bryan Ruiz and Berbatov. The later being the proven Premiership player with no resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10672 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'm surprised you think Ashley is some kind of puppet master, Llambias walking and the club targeting Bent certainly suggest Llambias felt strongly about the resale value rules we had in place. Maybe he has Stockholm syndrome? The options you suggest remind me of Fulham going for Bryan Ruiz and Berbatov. The later being the proven Premiership player with no resale value. I don't think the two are as directly connected as you suggest. Didn't Llambias leave because of the appointment of Kinnear? Massive difference between Bent and Berbatov. One is purely bought for his goals and wouldn't be expected to create much. Berbatov is a mercurial talent who is unstoppable on his day and even when things aren't going his way he can still conjure something incredible. If I were to liken them, I'd say Bent is Andy Cole, Berbatov is Ben Arfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The jury is out on Bony and VanWolf..They will both find the PL much harder to score in. Plenty young guns have failed in the PL. I think Bony will be class for Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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