Positive Wonga Article

[asteroidblitz 12]

Interest is simply rebadged as 'profit' or 'mark up' in Islamic finance.

 

I've got a current account, Visa card and car loan with Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank here in the UAE. 'Profit' charges are on a par with or lower than the interest I would pay with HSBC here in the UAE or back home, just packaged differently. However, I think it's the practice of Wonga charging mental interest rates that can seen as financially 'unislamic', with regards to the 'balance between moral and material requirement':

 

http://www.adib.ae/understanding-islamic-banking-0

 

For example, my car belongs to ADIB until I pay the last installment. If I sell it, I have to clear the loan before I can get the registration changed to the new owner. A pain, maybe, but prevents recklessness from the feckless.

 

All in all, it's a lot more responsible and ethical than Wonga.

[Kid Dynamite 7033]

In an industry that's completely lacking in them, I'm struggling to have a problem with a bloke standing up for his principles.

I said the same a few days ago. Since when did Ashley and Wonga become paragons of virtue? Cisse hasn't given us an ounce of bother in all his time here

[ChezGiven 0]

In an industry that's completely lacking in them, I'm struggling to have a problem with a bloke standing up for his principles.

There is no evidence that Cissé feels the same as ATP and has a problem on an individual level nor is there any evidence that he follows AB's view that the very high interest rates are unislamic (an that therefore by definition the high street rates offered by Virgin are fairly Islamic).

 

I think therefore that the most likely explanation for the episode is the pay rise on offer in Russia.

[ewerk 30632]

He also had no problem wearing the logo of a credit card company on his shirt when he was at Metz.

[Asprilla 96]

#fuckreligion

yep

[Asprilla 96]

Loans with added interest payments is the issue regards Islam/Muslims. Not the rate itself or the type of person using the service.

but they're ok with animal cruelty, throwing acid in womens' faces and underage marriage. Edited July 18, 2013 by Asprilla

[Christmas Tree 4728]

There is no evidence that Cissé feels the same as ATP and has a problem on an individual level nor is there any evidence that he follows AB's view that the very high interest rates are unislamic (an that therefore by definition the high street rates offered by Virgin are fairly Islamic).

 

I think therefore that the most likely explanation for the episode is the pay rise on offer in Russia.

 

Yup

[Gemmill 44934]

There is no evidence that Cissé feels the same as ATP and has a problem on an individual level nor is there any evidence that he follows AB's view that the very high interest rates are unislamic (an that therefore by definition the high street rates offered by Virgin are fairly Islamic).

 

I think therefore that the most likely explanation for the episode is the pay rise on offer in Russia.

He might well be doing it to exploit an opportunity to leave the club. But we don't know that and there remains the possibility that this is a matter of principle. And there are enough people trying to equate Wonga with other financial institutions to suggest that, assuming this is a matter of principle, they still have a problem with it. And I don't agree with that.

[Park Life 71]

Cisse if you watch him is far more religious than those other fakers like Hba and Ba and Totty. He doesn't need to do this if he wants a move btw or have people suddenly forgotten how powerful agents and discontented players are these days?

[PaddockLad 17284]

It would be ironic if he was trying to take some sort of moral high ground and then turns round and joins the most morally dubious club in a league riven with corruption and the huge pay rise that goes with it.

[Park Life 71]

It would be ironic if he was trying to take some sort of moral high ground and then turns round and joins the most morally dubious club in a league riven with corruption and the huge pay rise that goes with it.

Don't think there's much interest in the PL...

[ewerk 30632]

Cisse if you watch him is far more religious than those other fakers like Hba and Ba and Totty.

 

How so?

[Park Life 71]

 

How so?

Finger kiss sky point at kick off, when he's offside, when he misses and easy chance (with added grin)...grass kissing (overkill)...Don't see Hatem or Tiote doing all that...He was the same at Freiburg.

I find overtly Christian players just as irritating btw with all the sky pointing. God doesn't live in the sky ffs!!

Edited July 18, 2013 by Park Life

[ewerk 30632]

And the Christian players who bless themselves coming onto the pitch must be much more religious than those who don't?

[Park Life 71]

And the Christian players who bless themselves coming onto the pitch must be much more religious than those who don't?

Christians aren't religious. That's one religion that has stepped aside to the wonders of explotation and rampant capitalism...Barely a peep out of the fuckers. Jesus will come back as a muslim nailed on...

Edited July 18, 2013 by Park Life

[trophyshy 7083]

He's chosen to work in one of the least islamic businesses and cultures possible (for a capitalist arsehole). Whilst I admire a man who makes a stand, he wants his cake and to eat it too.

 

Wonga, the straw the broke the muslim's back?

 

It's like going to work in a brothel and refusing sodomy as God forbade it.

Edited July 18, 2013 by trophyshy

[Craig 6682]

If there is truth in the fact that he has issue with Wonga then his motives have to be questioned as he had no issue with Virgin Money. Although we musn't lose sight of the fact that Wonga is purely a loan company whereas Virgin are a bank offering a multitude of services. Is that a factor? Only Papiss would be able to confirm.

There's also no written rule book on religion and beliefs. What one person finds an acceptable level, the next will not necessarily follow so I find the journalists comments that 'Ben Arfa and Tiote are also Muslims but have no issue with wearing the logo' a little narrow minded.

On the grounds of diversity and equality, you'd have thought the club would have managed any potential 'issues' with the deal before signing it. I'm no expert on employment law but I'd have thought that if Cisse has an issue with the logo, the club have not consulted the player and they fine him / leave him believing he has no option but to seek a transfer, then he probably has strong grounds for constructive dismissal. I'd also go so far as to say the club will likely need to prove that they did consult with him rather than Cisse having to prove that they didn't.

If he is using this as a vehicle to move on then the best thing we can do is get him sold ASAP and concentrate on getting a replacement. There is no loyalty in football these days - there hasn't been for decades and the Alan Shearers of this world are the exception to the norm. Cisse owes us nothing. We pay him a wage and he sticks the ball in the net. Simple as that.

[Gemmill 44934]

The comparison with Virgin Money is absolute bollocks like.

[scoobos 298]

That first paragraph is wonga's fault and not her husbands employer/pension/death benefits set up? seriously? Or the kids schools for not lending a helping hand?, asides from that it's not a surprise kids needing school gear, i remember when i was at school before my mum had made it up the ranks, she saved for months to get me one of the decent blazers and then it was bought too big with the sleeves rolled up to do me.

Yes people can get into financial difficulties and need help, but by fuck is it wongas fault if they take out a loan knowing they can't repay it back, Desperation or not that's called stupidity, do you think banks have much more sympathy when it comes to property repossessions?

 

it's not Wongas fault or any other payday lender that you can't manage your finances or get loans of "legitimate" banks etc, where's the outrage for the banks who have gobbled up peoples wage packets every month and then not helping them when they lose their job eh?

 

not saying buy the shirt or whatever, but the faux outrage is laughable, Where was everyone shouting "here this is a disgrace, alcoholic beverage on our top lads!" it's ruined more lives than a payday lender, is it brown ales fault they made a bottle available to an alco, he was deseperate like... or a gambling addict if we had paddy power or bwin on our shirts?

 

Let me assure you, there is nothing false about my outrage on > 50% APR companies.

 

I admire your loyalty to the club, and you're as entitled to your view as I am mine - but for me , being associated with Wonga is shameful - it's an almost universally hated institution (you know its got a FAKE debt collection agency within Wonga? - that's legal apparently!!!) which does act like a loan shark - just cos its a business it seems to get leeway . I would chance my arm and say if they were Sunderland sponsors you wouldn't defend them quite so enthusiastically.

 

I was going to post and say I had a bad night last night, but your personal experience is your own. There are many people who seriously don't have a choice.

 

Given the opportunity to feed your children vs taking a risk on borrowing - it's a no brainer for most mums. Is it an individuals fault if they are not very clever? Not in my view, its just luck of the draw both genetically and geographically. (I work for a charity and studies at UNICEF have proven this - the UK scores very very poorly nowadays on child welfare)

 

I would buy the argument that its the governments fault for not regulating, but not that its the individuals - for me the individual is doing the RIGHT thing if they use whatever means necessary to look after their children (which is legal). Perhaps a bit of an unfair example, but Tyne & Wear is pretty rich compared to some areas , that have never recovered and continue to be punished - such as North wales, fringe Scotland etc.

 

 

Apologies to all who want a decent un-derailed thread!

[Andrew 4771]

Do Virgin money offer 0 interest accounts and what have that are sharia compliant? I know a few banks do.

[scoobos 298]

Virgin Money do offer Islamic "friendly" services yes, (well actually they seem to circumvent it by giving the profits made back to Islamic Charity) .

 

It's quite similar to the Halal food debate (Halal on the high street is not really Halal, animals are still stunned as its British Law) - sure there's an argument that "real Halal" is sold on the market by people who break the rules when no-ones looking.

 

Another thing that isn't mentioned that supports the view that Cisse should STFU is that the Koran says that the rules apply only if there are no options available. (so , unlike Jewish peeps, its fine to eat NON Halal if it isn't available, and use services that ignore the gambling rules if there's none available (still cant go down the bookies though of course, or lend to family members with interest).

 

That's what its really getting at, don't make money out of lending to friends and family.

 

The argument for me would be that "normal" banks have many arms and services , while Wonga has only 1 - which is directly against Islamic culture - it aggressively lends and lends only. Perhaps if Wonga was a bona-fide financial institution it would be fine.

 

Lets make no silly assumptions , I lived and worked in Malaysia which has more Muslims than any other country in the world and its banking system isn't much different to ours. It's also an incredibly tolerant country (Sharia law is there, but its OPTIONAL to Muslims only, its never enforced on anyone who is not a Muslim). As a side note, I used to go to a Mosque there (for social reasons not religious) and as soon as they found out my wife was Prestonian they were talking about how the Muslims they knew who were "trouble" going to Preston because they could be much more intolerant there!!! weird huh.

 

Wonga and high interest "Payday loans" will never ever ever be accepted there though and for me, I'll never accept them either. I fully expect the a PPI type backlash in 5 or 10 years time.

Edited July 18, 2013 by scoobos

[scoobos 298]

Interest is simply rebadged as 'profit' or 'mark up' in Islamic finance.

 

I've got a current account, Visa card and car loan with Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank here in the UAE. 'Profit' charges are on a par with or lower than the interest I would pay with HSBC here in the UAE or back home, just packaged differently. However, I think it's the practice of Wonga charging mental interest rates that can seen as financially 'unislamic', with regards to the 'balance between moral and material requirement':

 

http://www.adib.ae/understanding-islamic-banking-0

 

For example, my car belongs to ADIB until I pay the last installment. If I sell it, I have to clear the loan before I can get the registration changed to the new owner. A pain, maybe, but prevents recklessness from the feckless.

 

All in all, it's a lot more responsible and ethical than Wonga.

 

or again, WHS in far less words than me.

[scoobos 298]

Christians aren't religious. That's one religion that has stepped aside to the wonders of explotation and rampant capitalism...Barely a peep out of the fuckers. Jesus will come back as a muslim nailed on...

 

lol sorry for the multi post - but you do know that Islam, Christianity and Catholicism (sp?) are all really branches of the same religion right?

 

to say Christians aren't religious is a bit daft, course they are - I am. I'd say people who "say" they are Christian aren't - cos its a stupid british thing for complete bloody morons to mixup religion and cultural identity. (e.g the "I'm British, I'm church of England" when they haven't ever been to bloody church.

[ewerk 30632]

cos its a stupid british thing for complete bloody morons to mixup religion and cultural identity. (e.g the "I'm British, I'm church of England" when they haven't ever been to bloody church.

 

 

The same way that Malaysia automatically counts all ethnic Malays as Muslim?

[Gemmill 44934]

I would suggest that until you've been put in a situation where you need to visit a payday lender to put food on the table for your kids, you don't really know what desperate is.