BigWalrus 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I reckon if Cisse's non offside goal against thr mackems had stood, we'd be safe now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Lots of ifs and buts. Its that way for all teams over the course of a season. Fact is we deserve to be in this mess because we HAVE been absolute shit this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Us being in this situation has nothing to do with the sale of Ba. If you remember, we actually started the season ok, beating Spurs, then a lot of draws followed. November was when it really started to go wrong, and December was just as bad, although we played 3 of the top teams then. At this time we still had Ba. After a very good transfer window Cissé could regain his proper position as a striker, and we'd signed Gouffran who's more of a forward/winger. We actually improved in jan-feb, beating Villa, Chelsea and Southampton. After that it's been a disaster, of course, with Pardew adapting the team to the opposition rather than playing our own game. Playing Cisse on the wing all autumn was disastrous and really fucked up his confidence. Not surprisingly he's started scoring again when played in his proper position. No, you can't blame this season on Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 and I'm usually an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Us being in this situation has nothing to do with the sale of Ba. We would be in this position if Ba was still here? But you do make a good point, trying to accommodate Ba AND THEN HIM FUCKING OFF ANYWAY was, in hindsight, folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) We would be in this position if Ba was still here? But you do make a good point, trying to accommodate Ba AND THEN HIM FUCKING OFF ANYWAY was, in hindsight, folly. I think so, yes. As I said, during our worst run of the season Ba was still here. I'd rather have the players we signed in the window (especially Sissoko and Debuchy) than still have Ba and play Cissé on the wing. Total waste. Edited May 6, 2013 by hostile_statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) I think so, yes. As I said, during our worst run of the season Ba was still here. I'd rather have the players we signed in the window (especially Sissoko and Debuchy) than still have Ba and play Cissé on the wing. Total waste. I think he would have nicked a few more goals than Cisse has, isn't he still our top scorer? Edit, in the league aye, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/top-scorers Edited May 6, 2013 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) I think he would have nicked a few more goals than Cisse has, isn't he still our top scorer? Edit, in the league aye, http://www.bbc.co.uk...ted/top-scorers Ba is a great player, better all-round than Cissé although I think Cissé is a more natural goalscorer. When Pardew signed Cissé he said he considered him as an out-and-out striker while Ba would play further back. Ba clearly didn't agree. I'd say if you have Ba and Cissé you have to play with 2 strikers. In an ideal world we would have kept Ba AND sign Debuchy, Sissoko et al. But, he wanted to leave, release clause, etc... Edited May 6, 2013 by hostile_statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Well Ashley approves the transfers and appoints the manager, coaching & scouting teams... I have a gander at NO now and then and its pretty vehemently anti Pardew...fair shout, but what about the man who appointed him? theres hardly a note of criticsm...if we're (partly) blaming the sudden influx of half a dozen Frenchies in January, then the need for them was obvious the previous May when we qualified for Europe. But there again, the deals we got for 3 of them just weren't on the table in the summer, so anyone who does trace this back to a lack of recruitment in the summer can't have it both ways if they have a history of praising Ashley for his "buy em young, cheap as poss" policy. Possibly we should've bit the bullet a bit more in the summer and had a bit more rotation pre Christmas...possibly we should've signed another striker to replace Ba in Janauary, possibly we should've sacked Pardew before Christmas. If anyone thinks at least one of these things should've happened, then all those decisions are ultimately down to Ashley. Nobody liked it when Pardew was appointed. Last season was a pleasant suprise but I dont think anyone expected Pards to do great things here. You can say Ashley lacked the ambition to appoint someone who could take us places. But even with Pards at the helm and the squad at his disposal, you could at the very least expect a top half finish. Anything less has to be put down to the playing and coaching teams. Edited May 6, 2013 by aimaad22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9429 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I reckon if Cisse's non offside goal against thr mackems had stood, we'd be safe now. If the last minute handball winner at Wigan had been seen, which I still find incredible it wasn't, we'd be just about there an all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Had we kept or replaced Demba...etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gejon 2 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If the last minute handball winner at Wigan had been seen, which I still find incredible it wasn't, we'd be just about there an all. If McManacathword had been correctly sent off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Had we kept or replaced Demba...etc etc Regardless, we shouldn't be in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Regardless, we shouldn't be in this position. But we are - multiple aspects have conspired to leave us in the shit. How many other teams in the league are as weak as we are for strikers? We failed to get Remy & we replaced a £20m striker in Ba with a £500k bargain. Apparently Ashley sactioned money for Carroll/De Jong - so why did we end up without? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 But we are - multiple aspects have conspired to leave us in the shit. How many other teams in the league are as weak as we are for strikers? We failed to get Remy & we replaced a £20m striker in Ba with a £500k bargain. Apparently Ashley sactioned money for Carroll/De Jong - so why did we end up without? These are good questions and I agree we should've signed another striker but it's a weak excuse for being where we are. We still have players who can get goals. I wouldn't say we're in the shit because we haven't scored enough goals. We've scored as many as Swansea, more than West Ham. The problem is rather we've let in more goals than any other team (apart from Reading I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yeah I think missing Colo for a large part of the season has hurt us in that respect. We've conceded more when he's been playing I think but there's goals we've conceded this season where has hasn't been playing and it's been the exact kind of situation he'd come in and sweep up. Wigan and Swansea away both come to mind. I think Mbiwa/Taylor is a poor partnership thus far but Mbiwa is going to be a great player - even looks good at full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Aye he looked canny on Saturday I thought. What a difference Colo made as well, everyone seems so calm when he's around, almost like a different team. No way would we have been dumped by the mackems or scousers in that fashion had he been around. Sigh, more ifs and buts.... Edited May 6, 2013 by aimaad22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yeah Colo is a gem. His calmness amazes me and inspires those around him - it's just a shame things have worked out the way they have. Again - had he been fit we'd have been alright. You need consistency in defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If Blunderland beat Stoke today it could move them up into 11th spot. If they draw they will move above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If they get beat they'll stay below us, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If Blunderland beat Stoke today it could move them up into 11th spot. If they draw they will move above us. If they draw, we are going to be the weakest of 4 teams and be at 17th when Wigan beats the shit out of Swansea (who can send their best players on an early holiday they want to really. They got nothing left to play for). I'm not sure we are going to get any points from the next two matches either...we are a shite shite team atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Sounds like you're enjoying it to be honest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Sounds like you're enjoying it to be honest.... I'm not, I'm just depressed... learn to know the difference. Edited May 6, 2013 by Aeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 33240 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 What would you put it down to if we were relegated? Lack of summer investment coupled with a bad run of injuries? - I'm struggling to accept that since the latter half of the season we spent with a good crop of new players (though see below) Lack of replacing Ba? We needed a new forward then we sold Ba. Gouffran is canny but we needed him and Ba. We never replaced Ba and playing Cisse on his own with an out of sorts HBA and poor form Jonas isn't cutting it. Pards tactics? He seem to be following a similar pattern like at prior clubs. Playing Gosling over Anita? Players in strange positions as so on. A bigger concern for me over these is the seeming lack of motivation of the players. The lack of fight. I still believe we have a strong first team and average squad. When people are saying we are too strong to go down yet we are in the position we are in you have to ask why and while I've been reluctant to judge too swiftly, all things considered points towards poor management imo. First time we were relegated I blamed Ashley's handling of the club, without question. This time I don't. The players and the manager take some blame no doubt as does some rotten luck, however the buck stops at Ashley/Llambias I'm afraid. The latter in particular clearly relished the praise last season and played up himself and Ashley being hardnosed and tough to negotiate with. Giving an eight year contract to Pardew was complete folly particularly for a man who wants people to be 'hungry' for a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Thank god I've been away for four days and missed most of this. Gut wrenching stuff and I can't see any hope of avoiding it. None. As for the blame pie there is lots to go round, but the biggest chunk without doubt goes to Pardew. Ashley gets the blame for not getting rid of Pardew pre Xmas but like many on here, he rightly thought the January influx was enough to climb away from danger. Of course it should have been. No benefits of relegation this time around. Only hope is Ashley gets a great manager who is happy to do a year in the championship and doesn't let the "star" players take the easy bus. At least Shane has been getting Championship practice in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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