Yohan Kebab,Depression & The Taxman(with chilli and garlic)

[BigWalrus 0]

Just noticed the Milliband point. Milliband was also a full time MP during that time, so I imagine he spent comparatively little time at SAFC, so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

Llambias works full time for NUFC, so his daily / hourly rate is likely to actually be much lower than Milliband's.

[ewerk 29491]

Ok I'll bite on this one

Firstly, didn't know that - am surprised. fair comment.

Secondly, really ? how do you know Llambias doesnt own shares? It would be strange to have a director who doesnt. 200k a year is still a piss take The club is 100% owned by MASH Holdings - Llambias does not own any shares

Thirdly, Dividends are tax free to a point , you get 10% credit when you cash them. Loan interest is taxable. So you don't pay the first 35k , the second bracket is still low (lower than PAYEAshley has not charged interest on his loan, the capital repayments are tax free. Taxation on any dividends for Ashley/Llambias would be paid at the higher rates of 37.5% less the 10% tax credit.

Forthly, it doesn't work like that - you cannot take previous years into account - you either turn profit in that financial year or you dont. (profit BEFORE dividends)Trading losses can indeed be carried forward/back

Fifthly - bone of contention for me . David Milliband was on 110K at sunderland for example David Miliband worked 15 days a year, his role was very much different from Llambias' managing director role

Sixthly - 50% tax bracket is gone mate, so theres no way his take home is 50% less than his payout, but yeah, thats fair enough.On a £200k salary Llambias would take home around £116k after tax and NI

[scoobos 297]

point four was that the profits were taxed once. that took six million edits , that last post

[ewerk 29491]

Yes, we're talking about carrying forward losses, not profits.

[BigWalrus 0]

Uff I'm making this very dry sorry - Look at understanding dividend tax credits. -> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxon/uk.htm#1 I am 100% sure that retained profits are not subject to corporation tax - they get taxed and assessed yearly, as does an individuals income. You can retrospectively get done if you deliberately break the law to reduce liability but it doesn't carry forward mate, honest. Personal taxes are 41% of gross salary, so yes I am arguing over a (relatively) small amount - its 83k tax. Finally we've said nothing on the 32 million profit that disappeared the next year into a 35 million loss, (so net 3 million loss) I fail to see how, given the sales we've made.

Employees NI =

£7,214

PAYE =

£76,098

. on 200K.

 

Yep, dividends are taxable at the point the individual receives them, as the website shows. I haven't suggested that NUFC would have to pay tax on dividends paid.

 

OK, so Llambias' take home is 58% of his total gross salary - close enough to just over 50% for me!

 

Losses can most certainly be carried forward and used to offset future profits - it's the most basic of company tax reliefs. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/forms-rates/claims/losses.htm

 

I think you might be referring to carrying forward personal taxes. Self employment / self assessment and limited company tax rules are different. There are elements of individual tax that can be carried forward (like capital gains for instance), but they're two separate areas.

[BigWalrus 0]

point four was that the profits were taxed once. that took six million edits , that last post

 

No dividends have been paid though!

[BigWalrus 0]

Just noticed your edits.

 

Finally we've said nothing on the 32 million profit that disappeared the next year into a 35 million loss, (so net 3 million loss) I fail to see how, given the sales we've made.

 

The £35m loss was made because we were in the Championship. Less TV money, massive wage bill.

 

Maybe I need to hire you to explain the retained profits thing, because my accountant and my other ones have NEVER ever brought previous year profits into a return, ever. It's subject to corp tax on the year its made and that's it. Are you really a chartered accountant or are you pulling my leg?? (not trying to be an arse, honest guv)

 

Yes I am definitely an accountant! Tax isn't my specialism though, but I do know the basics.

 

If you make a loss one year, you can offset it against your profits in the next year to reduce your liability. You can even carry losses back and offset them against previous profits in certain circumstances.

 

Honestly - read the link I posted (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/forms-rates/claims/losses.htm) which shows the various forms of tax relief available. You don't even have to make a specific claim if you're offsetting past losses against future profits, as it's such a standard procedure.

[scoobos 297]

Nothing like making an arse of myself on a forum is there Seriously though , I still don't really understand where that 32 mil went.

[scoobos 297]

Just noticed your edits.

 

 

 

The £35m loss was made because we were in the Championship. Less TV money, massive wage bill.

 

 

 

Yes I am definitely an accountant! Tax isn't my specialism though, but I do know the basics.

 

If you make a loss one year, you can offset it against your profits in the next year to reduce your liability. You can even carry losses back and offset them against previous profits in certain circumstances.

 

Honestly - read the link I posted (http://www.hmrc.gov....aims/losses.htm) which shows the various forms of tax relief available. You don't even have to make a specific claim if you're offsetting past losses against future profits, as it's such a standard procedure.

Thanks for carrying this on - that wasn't my point though, unless I wrote it incorrectly, it was that corp tax liability is not carried forward and is only charged once. I'll stop derailing my own thread now though and say that it looks to me like Cabaye can't settle, I expect him to try to leave in the summer - and given his current form and attitude issues I would only be a little gutted, as long as we replace. Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[BigWalrus 0]

no worries.

 

As for the £32m loss.... It's fairly simple - as we weren't in the Premier League, the TV money was heavily reduced, our ability to attract sponsorship and advertising was reduced and our matchday revenue was cut as we couldn't charge top whack when we were playing Doncaster at home (compared with Arsenal, Man Utd etc the year before).

 

About £12m of additional costs were incurred with the club writing down player contracts. When we sign players, they're essentially given a value in the books like you would with a fixed asset, and they're depreciated over the life of their contract. (That's why we had Freddy Shepherd making the ludicrous statement that we'd made a profit on Laurent Robert when we sold him for £2m, even though we paid £10m). For instance if we signed a player for £10m on a 5 year deal, we'd recognise a cost of £2m per year over the life of the contract.

 

With Barton (£6m), Nolan (£4m), Smith (£6m), Xisco (£7m), Enrique (£6m), Coloccini (£10m) etc in our squad, there is a hefty amount of write down to take into account. This doesn't have any cash flow impact, but is perceived as the most appropriate way to recognise the cost of a player (over the life of the contract rather than in one lump at the start).

 

Essentially, we reduced the amount of cost in the club massively compared with the season before, but the severe drop in TV money made it next to impossible to cover it. Had we failed to get promoted at the first attempt, we could really be in the shit.

[BigWalrus 0]

One last point - if you are the director of a limited company, and you've made losses in the past, you should bloody well use them to reduce your tax bill. Everyone else would. If you have a fair whack of historic losses, a decent tax accountant would pay for themselves in this regard!

[Christmas Tree 4438]

Nothing like making an arse of myself on a forum is there Seriously though , I still don't really understand where that 32 mil went.

 

Dont worry, you're not alone

[Gemmill 42648]

 

Proper chartered or CIMA? Don't even get me started on ACCA.

 

Oof, looking like an ACCA here.

[BigWalrus 0]

Proper chartered or CIMA? Don't even get me started on ACCA.

 

Proper chartered. AC fucking A

[Gemmill 42648]

The only kind, brother.

[BigWalrus 0]

[scoobos 297]

One last point - if you are the director of a limited company, and you've made losses in the past, you should bloody well use them to reduce your tax bill. Everyone else would. If you have a fair whack of historic losses, a decent tax accountant would pay for themselves in this regard!

 

Thankfully my company doesn't make losses (touch wood)

 

Quality thread title change

Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[Christmas Tree 4438]

What do you do?

 

(In case I need one / it )

 

Feel free to keep your privacy.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

"so called"

[Dr Gloom 21302]

Newcastle rocked as Cabaye admits he is keen on Man United move

 

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/130607/newcastle-rocked-cabaye-admits-he-keen-man-united-move-199-1#ixzz2VXbjcS72

[Gemmill 42648]

Are Man United keen on Cabaye move?

[Andrew 4650]

Footballer in "admitting he'd be happy to join one of the worlds biggest clubs" shocker

 

Total nonstory imo, he's not put in a transfer request he's been asked if he'd be willing to join Man U. If he'd said no we all know he'd by lying

[Howmanheyman 31592]

"Yes of course. I've liked this club for a long time, I like what they do," he told Canal+. "The boss has left but they have appointed a very good successor and he did some good things with Everton.

"They are always well played among the big clubs. Yes for sure, it would be an interesting challenge."

Monaco and PSG have also been reported to be chasing Cabaye, but he says he is unaware of any interest from his homeland.

"I have no direct contact with anyone; maybe my agents are currently in the know.

"As for me, I am here listening. I like England as well. I will need to look at the situation but you never know."

 

 

I'd be quite happy for Man U to stump up the cash or failing that Moyes to make a statement to Canal+ or even Canal- that he's not interested in Cabaye as he's not been good enough.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

cabaye was pretty shit last season. cant see why man u would fancy him tbh

[jonasjuice 0]

He's a good player, who could play a good part in their midfield, but that's it. He's not some world beater. Will they pay £15-20 million for that? I doubt it.