Yohan Kebab,Depression & The Taxman(with chilli and garlic)

[Christmas Tree 4375]

 

Its an error continuing employing Pardew according to you but won't put up with that though. According to you, Ashley is fucking up over something very,very fundamental to the success of the club, but you wouldnt dream of criticising Ashley. Don't understand.

 

Give it up man.

 

Only last week you raised the same point and I told you IMO he is wrong continuing (if he does) with Pardew. What more do you want me to add to that?

 

I can however understand why he would prefer stability and not going through the merry go round again. The fact that Pardew is supposedly the third longest serving manager shows what a thankless task it is trying to get a good one. Maybe he just thinks better the devil etc etc.

 

There's no right or wrong, just opinion. He might keep Pardew on, bring people in to assist where he falls short, add better players and it will be enough to keep us as a regular top 8 team.

 

As a fan of course you always want the best. Keeping Pardew to me is probably equivalent to keeping Simpson instead of Debuchy.

 

 

[scoobos 297]

sorry to add fuel to the fire, but Its a good thread this.

 

So when you say "Keeping pardew ... equivalent to keeping simpson over deb" , it infers that we have a manager on the market, at our rates and willing to follow Ashleys model who is 3x the manager P is... Thats just not the case.

 

The reality is, get rid of Pardew - and get in someone equal or worse. We can't aim higher than Pardew (and honestly, I think its harsh saying hes shat anyway, given he got Manager of the Year last year"

 

You can't cry stability and not expect to have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

Ashley is a nightmare that causes this in my view, nothing more nothing less. You are looking at what we have had so far - managers from the past, or completely unproven first timers.

Pardew imo is probably the best out of what we have had (bar hughton who I was happy with) .

 

Are you saying we should rid of Pardew for someone of the same ilk as his predecessors? the only people I see who can fill the new and past are:

 

1. Michael Appleton (unproven new, fucked Blackpool up the arse for a "better" contract at pompey)

2. Martin O'Niel, Mick Mcarthy, George Graham, (done it - Daglish).

 

you know what, I'll stick to Pardew and continue to throw my frustration at Ashley for putting us in this position.

[PaddockLad 16349]

Give it up man.

 

Only last week you raised the same point and I told you IMO he is wrong continuing (if he does) with Pardew. What more do you want me to add to that?

 

I can however understand why he would prefer stability and not going through the merry go round again. The fact that Pardew is supposedly the third longest serving manager shows what a thankless task it is trying to get a good one. Maybe he just thinks better the devil etc etc.

 

There's no right or wrong, just opinion. He might keep Pardew on, bring people in to assist where he falls short, add better players and it will be enough to keep us as a regular top 8 team.

 

As a fan of course you always want the best. Keeping Pardew to me is probably equivalent to keeping Simpson instead of Debuchy.

 

Debuchy is better than Simpson?....about time he showed it then

 

You're a one trick pony old son. Incapable of identifying where the true problem lies.

[Christmas Tree 4375]

sorry to add fuel to the fire, but Its a good thread this.

 

So when you say "Keeping pardew ... equivalent to keeping simpson over deb" , it infers that we have a manager on the market, at our rates and willing to follow Ashleys model who is 3x the manager P is... Thats just not the case.

 

The reality is, get rid of Pardew - and get in someone equal or worse. We can't aim higher than Pardew (and honestly, I think its harsh saying hes shat anyway, given he got Manager of the Year last year"

 

You can't cry stability and not expect to have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

Ashley is a nightmare that causes this in my view, nothing more nothing less. You are looking at what we have had so far - managers from the past, or completely unproven first timers.

Pardew imo is probably the best out of what we have had (bar hughton who I was happy with) .

 

Are you saying we should rid of Pardew for someone of the same ilk as his predecessors? the only people I see who can fill the new and past are:

 

1. Michael Appleton (unproven new, fucked Blackpool up the arse for a "better" contract at pompey)

2. Martin O'Niel, Mick Mcarthy, George Graham, (done it - Daglish).

 

you know what, I'll stick to Pardew and continue to throw my frustration at Ashley for putting us in this position.

 

We won't agree on this because your starting point is evil Ashley as bad as ever and that we can never move forward.

 

My starting position is that since totally fucking up leading to the last relegation we have overall moved forward.

 

Of course there have still been lots of cock ups but overall the club seems on a sound footing compared to many. While you may not like the plan, at least there is a plan.

 

This year for the numerous reasons done to death we have gone backward.

 

I'd rather now look forward.

 

No excuses from the board this summer. We all know many of the holes that need filling, particularly if Pardew stays. If last summer was a genuine gamble and over reliance on youth, there are no hiding places this summer.

 

Even if the board do their part in the summer, it won't change my mind that Pardew isn't the man to get the best out of that assembled squad.

 

Can we afford a better quality manager? Of course we can.

 

Would they want to work in the premiership? Many would give their right knacker to.

 

Will they want to work for Ashley? I'm sure again there are many who would love to work at a financially stable club with an improving squad and a world famous club.

 

Will Ashley do it? I'm guessing he wants to keep him and avoid the gamble of a management merry go round and it really depends on the inquest that takes place after the end of the season. It seems as though Llambias wants to keep Pardew but there are others advising Ashley to get rid.

 

I'm just pleased the seasons nearly done.

[Christmas Tree 4375]

 

Debuchy is better than Simpson?....about time he showed it then

 

You're a one trick pony old son. Incapable of identifying where the true problem lies.

 

One of us is definitely a one trick pony

 

I happily agree with others who point to last summer, injuries and player problems. I just put Pardew as the main problem.

 

Your stance is "the buck stops with Ashley".

 

It's a lovely phrase and overall true, but a simplistic view of the Myriad of issues.

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 41165]

Seriously, what more does he have to do to prove the old addage that football fans are stupid and will plough money in the club no matter what. He's so far slandered our favourite manager in recent years (keegan), hired complete jokers, bought players on favour to agents , tried to rename the whole stadium for no reason other than advertising his own brand (at no cost I bet) , made a laughing stock of us for the transfer stories and washing his dirty laundry in public. Tried to say he's doing us a favour, the clubs in trouble , I'll sell at the right price - then not selling when someone actually makes an offer. Sealed us with Wonga , oh christ it just goes on , its all just smoke and mirrors and a fat greedy twat feeding his ego and wallet out of the heritage of our club - a northern club with history and a keen following (or as Ashley sees it , a cheap club with stupid fans and an assured cash cow no matter what he does).

 

There you go, cards on table

[PaddockLad 16349]

One of us is definitely a one trick pony

 

I happily agree with others who point to last summer, injuries and player problems. I just put Pardew as the main problem.

 

Your stance is "the buck stops with Ashley".

 

It's a lovely phrase and overall true, but a simplistic view of the Myriad of issues.

 

WHO APPOINTED HIM? AND WHO CAN SACK HIM? ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!

 

 

[scoobos 297]

We won't agree on this because your starting point is evil Ashley as bad as ever and that we can never move forward.

 

My starting position is that since totally fucking up leading to the last relegation we have overall moved forward.

 

I wouldn't be so sure we won't agree , but I hope we don't - if it takes another 2 or 3 managers and horrible heart rippingly bad seasons for us to agree.

 

I'm starting with Ashley is evil , mainly due to the Keegan trial - if you haven't read the transcript from that you really should.

 

I could have my mind changed, but I don't really see any progress. All this "i've balanced the books" comes down to nothing if we continually fail and become a dead wood club.

 

This is a man, who I believe is brokering his deals on the premise of "We'll put a minimum fee in " or "come to the premiership and prove yourself" knowing they'll get sold if they bloom.

 

I just can't see him keeping anyone whos on red hot form, if 25 mil comes in; he's said as much. (not big money anymore for the big 4) - so what are we to be? A glorified feeder club? How many other owners have publically set a price on his entire squad?

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Every player has a price.If Real Madrid offered £300m for Messi ,Barca would sell.Even a makem would know that we look to bring players in on the cheap with the plan to sell at a profit to sign another player on the cheap,to sell..........to balance the books.Some owners aren't bothered if they don't balance the books.We have an owner who is .

[Kid Dynamite 6795]

They probably wouldn't tbf

[Dr Gloom 21191]

 

Can we afford a better quality manager? Of course we can.

 

Ashley can afford to employ a better manager but we're talking about a man whose two previous hires as managers are chris hughton and joe kinnear. he's not exactly renowned for splashing out on the kind of top end manager most of us would like to see.

[BigWalrus 0]

[scoobos 297]

funny how we are talking about managers we can afford , when Llambias is taking 200k SALARY before dividends and paying fook all corporation tax. There's a fine line between selling "balancing of the books" as being in the genuine interest of the club and balancing the books to ensure that the corp tax liability is 0. 5 years of owning us like this is 1 million cash, in salary alone for 1 director - if you accept that he's likely to sell at equal or greater to the value of the club , that is not good for us. I've been reading the accounts this morning I also noticed that Sports Direct DID NOT pay for the naming of the arena. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/apr/25/sports-direct-mike-ashley-shares) I'm banging on though on that point and derailing my own thread

Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[BigWalrus 0]

A few points in response...

 

Firstly, no dividends have been proposed or paid by NUFC since Ashley took over.

 

Secondly, as Llambias does not own any shares, he would not be entitled to dividends.

 

Thirdly, Ashley would be an idiot to pay dividends, as he'd be taxed on them. He'd be better off taking repayments of his loan.

 

Fourthly, we'll have a few more years of not paying corporation tax as we've made huge cumulative losses over the last 15 years.

 

Fifthly, Llambias' salary of £200k is consistent with what he'd get if he worked at any other comparably sized company.

 

Sixthly, Llambias will have paid tax through the PAYE system like any other employee, so he'll have taken home around £100k after tax and national insurance deductions.

[Christmas Tree 4375]

For some reason I pictured a bitch slap with each point

[BigWalrus 0]

For some reason I pictured a bitch slap with each point

 

Wasn't meant to be read that way. Just thought it was less formal than bullet points

[Dr Gloom 21191]

seventhly?

[scoobos 297]

Ok I'll bite on this one

Firstly, didn't know that - am surprised. fair comment.

Secondly, really ? how do you know Llambias doesnt own shares? It would be strange to have a director who doesnt. 200k a year is still a piss take.

Thirdly, Dividends are tax free to a point , you get 10% credit when you cash them. Loan interest is taxable. So you don't pay the first 35k , the second bracket is still low (lower than PAYE)

Forthly, it doesn't work like that - you cannot take previous years into account - you either turn profit in that financial year or you dont. (profit BEFORE dividends)

Fifthly - bone of contention for me . David Milliband was on 110K at sunderland for example.

Sixthly - 50% tax bracket is gone mate, so theres no way his take home is 50% less than his payout, but yeah, thats fair enough. Seventhly : I'm very suspicious of this particular entry regarding 1million being held under "operating leases" - and also the fact that the club has turned 32 million profit in 2010 according to these accounts - and then a loss of 35 million (on what , where is this loss coming from , the boardroom operating costs ????) that's more than balancing the books.

Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[scoobos 297]

I'll add I'm not saying I'm right - but I am a company director myself and file these accounts each year, so I reckon I'm alright at reading them (hopefully!!)

[ewerk 29211]

I'll add I'm not saying I'm right - but I am a company director myself and file these accounts each year, so I reckon I'm alright at reading them (hopefully!!)

 

You might want to hire an accountant.

[scoobos 297]

why so? (I do have an accountant , I've only manually filed once, many years ago)

Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[BigWalrus 0]

I see you bite and attach further bait to the hook

 

Llambias doesn't own any shares because it says so on Companies House. St James' Holdings Limited (the holding company for the football club) is 100% owned by MASH Holdings, which is Mike Ashley's company.

 

NUFC is paying any interest on the loan from Ashley as Ashley isn't charging any.

 

Dividends are certainly not tax free. Preferable rates compared with taking a salary, but they're still taxable. Moot point though, as there have been no dividends paid by NUFC since Ashley took over, and there are unlikely to be any for some years due to the loan situation.

 

Corporation tax does work like that. You very much take previous years into account given that the company is still trading in the same line of business.

 

Llambias' take home will work out just over 50% of his gross pay. Just less than 40% will be taken by income tax, with another chunk (probably around 9-10% effectively) taken by employee's national insurance. 50% tax band doesn't come into it.

[BigWalrus 0]

I'm not a company director, but I'm a chartered accountant.

[scoobos 297]

Uff I'm making this very dry sorry - now given that you are an accountant I'm foxed by HMRC's site and the guidance I've always followed!! http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxon/uk.htm#1 understanding tax credits. I am 100% sure that retained profits are not subject to corporation tax - they get taxed and assessed yearly, as does an individuals income. You can retrospectively get done if you deliberately break the law to reduce liability but it doesn't carry forward mate, that's my understanding anyway. Personal taxes are 41% of gross salary, so yes I am arguing over a (relatively) small amount - its 83k tax. Finally we've said nothing on the 32 million profit that disappeared the next year into a 35 million loss, (so net 3 million loss) I fail to see how, given the sales we've made.

 

Employees NI =

£7,214

PAYE =

£76,098

. on 200K.

Maybe I need to hire you to explain the retained profits thing, because my accountant and my other ones have NEVER ever brought previous year profits into a return, ever. It's subject to corp tax on the year its made and that's it. Are you really a chartered accountant or are you pulling my leg?? (not trying to be an arse, honest guv)

Edited May 17, 2013 by scoobos

[Gemmill 42030]

I'm not a company director, but I'm a chartered accountant.

 

Proper chartered or CIMA? Don't even get me started on ACCA.