Summer Transfers 2013

[Barney 0]

If he's taking his loan back, instead of investing in new players, and working only on a sell to buy basis, would people be happy as it would be a more attractive proposition for a potential buyer?

[Happy Face 29]

Interesting, if he planned on taking £18mil out of the club prior to January then that's chance to have screwed our chances of signing anyone this summer

 

It was planned long before January. It was a 2 or 3 year plan to recoup the cost of subsidising relegation, by taking out £11m (see how the balance dropped from £140m to £129m) then £18m,,,,

 

 

Discussed in this thread...

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/34154-ashleys-taken-l11m-out-of-the-club-in-2012/?p=1192217

 

This is what led to the one question I would ask in the Cameron thread. When is the £111m going to be due? Because we'll be running a massive surplus if he doesn't start paying that off too.

[David Kelly 1260]

If he's taking his loan back, instead of investing in new players, and working only on a sell to buy basis, would people be happy as it would be a more attractive proposition for a potential buyer?

If it gets him out of the club I'm sure it will benefit us in the long term but in the short term we will have to hope we can unearth more gems on the cheap that we can sell for a profit when they inevitably become sick of being at a club going nowhere.

[Happy Face 29]

Not sure if you've seen this @Happyface

 

http://www.true-faith.co.uk/thru-black-white-eyes-money-and-share-25aug13/

 

Keep meaning to read it, added to pocket for later.

[Howmanheyman 33946]

If he's taking his loan back, instead of investing in new players, and working only on a sell to buy basis, would people be happy as it would be a more attractive proposition for a potential buyer?

Yes and no.

 

Yes, as it gives us timescale or a finishing point to him fucking off and never darkening our doors again.

 

No, It was his crass decisions and direction which lead to a sizable amount of the debt in the first place, why does NUFC have to pay M Ashley money to cover M Ashley's fuck ups? Any debts covered and to be repaid prior to him taking over then fair enough, any accrued by him and his lackeys he can fuck right off IYAM.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Keep meaning to read it, added to pocket for later.

 

 

Had a read and it seems to be saying exactly what we all said 4 months ago in that thread I linked to.

[Happy Face 29]

Yes and no.

 

Yes, as it gives us timescale or a finishing point to him fucking off and never darkening our doors again.

 

No, It was his crass decisions and direction which lead to a sizable amount of the debt in the first place, why does NUFC have to pay M Ashley money to cover M Ashley's fuck ups? Any debts covered and to be repaid prior to him taking over then fair enough, any accrued by him and his lackeys he can fuck right off IYAM.

 

Ashley sees it as exactly the opposite. He views all the debt that he accumulated on the day he bought the club as being a cost he should bare. He converted that debt (which was accruing massive interest) from a bank loan to a personal interest free loan, which is indefinite.

 

The cost of relegation though, he sees that as one of the costs of his restructuring plan. Clearing out the expensive dead wood, getting incomings to match outgoings, so the club is self financing, now the club wipes it's own nose, it needs to pay back that debt.

 

I wonder if he will stop at that once it's all paid though. I think it will. But that doesn't mean we'll start buying more expensive players, the club can build up a massive cash reserve like Arsenal, and have the same benefit of adding value for a sale.

[Phil 6]

 

Ashley sees it as exactly the opposite. He views all the debt that he accumulated on the day he bought the club as being a cost he should bare. He converted that debt (which was accruing massive interest) from a bank loan to a personal interest free loan, which is indefinite.

 

The cost of relegation though, he sees that as one of the costs of his restructuring plan. Clearing out the expensive dead wood, getting incomings to match outgoings, so the club is self financing, now the club wipes it's own nose, it needs to pay back that debt.

 

I wonder if he will stop at that once it's all paid though. I think it will. But that doesn't mean we'll start buying more expensive players, the club can build up a massive cash reserve like Arsenal, and have the same benefit of adding value for a sale.

 

Is there a tax benefit to paying Ashley back the money - i.e Would the club have to pay tax on profit, but Ashley can remove without paying tax and in theory loan back without paying tax?

[The Fish 10977]

 

Ashley sees it as exactly the opposite. He views all the debt that he accumulated on the day he bought the club as being a cost he should bare. He converted that debt (which was accruing massive interest) from a bank loan to a personal interest free loan, which is indefinite.

 

The cost of relegation though, he sees that as one of the costs of his restructuring plan. Clearing out the expensive dead wood, getting incomings to match outgoings, so the club is self financing, now the club wipes it's own nose, it needs to pay back that debt.

 

I wonder if he will stop at that once it's all paid though. I think it will. But that doesn't mean we'll start buying more expensive players, the club can build up a massive cash reserve like Arsenal, and have the same benefit of adding value for a sale.

 

I'm clinging to the hope that once he's recouped his loan, that'll be him done with us and he'll seriously look to sell. A club with no debts is a much more attractive proposal than one endebted to the previous owner to the tune of £100m.

[Phil 6]

 

I'm clinging to the hope that once he's recouped his loan, that'll be him done with us and he'll seriously look to sell. A club with no debts is a much more attractive proposal than one endebted to the previous owner to the tune of £100m.

 

Value of the club will be the same with or without that being paid off. Club would cost 180m to buy with and 280m without.

[Happy Face 29]

I don't see any difference in his ability to sell now or after the debt is clear. Debt reduction only increases the cost of the club to the buyer. They may as well buy now and structure the debt as they would prefer...or pay it off.

 

There are not any interested parties sniffing about that Ashley is refusing to sell to right now, and I don't see them materialising down the line just because the debt is reduced.

 

A sale is more dependent on the economy recovering than NUFC's balance sheet iyam.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Is there a tax benefit to paying Ashley back the money - i.e Would the club have to pay tax on profit, but Ashley can remove without paying tax and in theory loan back without paying tax?

 

Don't know. You'd think so, but I think there are some rules about losses in previous years offsetting earnings in later years.

[The Fish 10977]

I thought that say he values the club at £200m and the loan debt at £100m, if the club repays the £100m to him, the value of the club doesn't go up to £300m to him?

 

Like, if I bought taxi for £1k and then knackered it, halving it's value. I then took out a loan of £500 from the bank to repair it. The taxi then made me £500 and I paid off the loan I'd still sell it for £1k, but if I sold it immediately I'd have to sell it for £1.5k to cover my spend?

 

I am useless with finance by the way

[Howmanheyman 33946]

 

Ashley sees it as exactly the opposite. He views all the debt that he accumulated on the day he bought the club as being a cost he should bare. He converted that debt (which was accruing massive interest) from a bank loan to a personal interest free loan, which is indefinite.

 

The cost of relegation though, he sees that as one of the costs of his restructuring plan. Clearing out the expensive dead wood, getting incomings to match outgoings, so the club is self financing, now the club wipes it's own nose, it needs to pay back that debt.

 

I wonder if he will stop at that once it's all paid though. I think it will. But that doesn't mean we'll start buying more expensive players, the club can build up a massive cash reserve like Arsenal, and have the same benefit of adding value for a sale.

Hmmmmm.........

 

How much did relegation cost and was that part of the restructuring plan?

 

Or did he fuck up and get a club relegated that should never have been relegated?

[Phil 6]

I thought that say he values the club at £200m and the loan debt at £100m, if the club repays the £100m to him, the value of the club doesn't go up to £300m to him?

 

Like, if I bought taxi for £1k and then knackered it, halving it's value. I then took out a loan of £500 from the bank to repair it. The taxi then made me £500 and I paid off the loan I'd still sell it for £1k, but if I sold it immediately I'd have to sell it for £1.5k to cover my spend?

 

I am useless with finance by the way

 

As he's the owner of the club and the loan, they'd just be combined.

 

If you paid off your taxi loan and saved up £500 for repairs, your taxi business would carry a value of 1.5k (taxi, plus cash in bank).

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel - as his 300m investment is giving a woeful return, so he'll either regain interest or sell. There's no way he'll keep 300m invested to just plod along. Any extra money (like the recent TV hike) will be sucked up by the fan expectations.

[Phil 6]

Hmmmmm.........

 

How much did relegation cost and was that part of the restructuring plan?

 

Or did he fuck up and get a club relegated that should never have been relegated?

 

Relegation cost us 25m on top of all the player sales.

[Happy Face 29]

Hmmmmm.........

 

How much did relegation cost and was that part of the restructuring plan?

 

Or did he fuck up and get a club relegated that should never have been relegated?

 

 

£29m. That's what he had to put in after his initial loan was supposed to balance the books. That's what he's taking out with £11m and £18m payments over the past 2 years.

[The Fish 10977]

 

 

As he's the owner of the club and the loan, they'd just be combined.

 

If you paid off your taxi loan and saved up £500 for repairs, your taxi business would carry a value of 1.5k (taxi, plus cash in bank).

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel - as his 300m investment is giving a woeful return, so he'll either regain interest or sell. There's no way he'll keep 300m invested to just plod along. Any extra money (like the recent TV hike) will be sucked up by the fan expectations.

 

 

I wonder what his valuation of Newcastle United is then?

[Craig 6700]

Wait, our transfer window wasn't finished........

 

http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20130904/amalfitano-heads-out-on-loan_2281670_3448230

 

Any more?

[ChezGiven 0]

 

 

As he's the owner of the club and the loan, they'd just be combined.

 

If you paid off your taxi loan and saved up £500 for repairs, your taxi business would carry a value of 1.5k (taxi, plus cash in bank).

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel - as his 300m investment is giving a woeful return, so he'll either regain interest or sell. There's no way he'll keep 300m invested to just plod along. Any extra money (like the recent TV hike) will be sucked up by the fan expectations.

 

Woeful return? If he takes 18m a year, that's above the market rate of return on 300m. Except his investment isnt really 300m, seeing as most of those are loans, not acquisition of capital. So 18m a year on lets say a 200m investment. Thats fucking 9%! He gets 9% a year and his initial investment grows in value.

 

If he spends 10m in January, he's not a total cunt but is still making excellent returns.

[santiagomn8 0]

i read today that 1 of the reasons we didnt buy in this transfer market is because we purchased players meant for the summer in the winter ie. goufrann, sissoko. So basicaly we do our shopping 4 months to late and i would assume that means we will bring in players in the winter. The only way i will be ok with this is if somehow we are top 8ish in the table around December and we still buy a few players to help the push for the top of the table. BUT thats seems like only a dream

 

Anytime from now on Pardew/Kinnear say they are going to do something i will only have one reaction

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7V1IYPdFJQ

Edited September 4, 2013 by Ant

[ewerk 31237]

Is there a tax benefit to paying Ashley back the money - i.e Would the club have to pay tax on profit, but Ashley can remove without paying tax and in theory loan back without paying tax?

No, there isn't.

[NJS 4411]

Woeful return? If he takes 18m a year, that's above the market rate of return on 300m. Except his investment isnt really 300m, seeing as most of those are loans, not acquisition of capital. So 18m a year on lets say a 200m investment. Thats fucking 9%! He gets 9% a year and his initial investment grows in value. 

 

If he spends 10m in January, he's not a total cunt but is still making excellent returns. 

A lot of wealth management firms/investment banks would return more than 9% on that much capital though I accept the asset value gain is a bonus..

 

 

[ChezGiven 0]

A lot of them would return a lot less too. Only the bullish equity markets this year have returned the majority of investment funds to profit over the last 2 to 3 years.

[Phil 6]

A lot of them would return a lot less too. Only the bullish equity markets this year have returned the majority of investment funds to profit over the last 2 to 3 years.

 

He'd buy a business not give to some cowboy investment bank.

 

20% is closer a return he'd expect. Currently he's loosing money.