The Fish 10779 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Our commercial income has been halved under Mike Ashley's reign. But our fat southern oaf quota has trebled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 This ignores wages as well as signing on fees and undisclosed transfers. Given that we have a wage bill of £65m+, wages must be included in any analysis like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 This ignores wages as well as signing on fees and undisclosed transfers. Given that we have a wage bill of £65m+, wages must be included in any analysis like this. I believe that is uses best known estimates for undisclosed transfers, not sure about signing on fees but really that will affect all clubs in the table. Given that we're nearly £13m off the next spot I'm not sure how much difference it would make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 This ignores wages as well as signing on fees and undisclosed transfers. Given that we have a wage bill of £65m+, wages must be included in any analysis like this. Given our wage bill is £15m below the average for the league and less than 2% above the league median, what would it add to the discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4145 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It would only add more weight to the obvious conclusion from those figures if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Given our wage bill is £15m below the average for the league and less than 2% above the league median, what would it add to the discussion? 2% above the median could mean that 9 teams have wages bills 30m below ours. The massive wage bills of 3 or 4 clubs might drag the mean up but not by as much as you expect given the bottom quartile(s) have massively lower bills. Not saying you're wrong, just that your 'given' statement added nothing for the statistically minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Given our wage bill is £15m below the average for the league and less than 2% above the league median, what would it add to the discussion? It means we'd be looking at the full picture, rather than just a portion of it. The club has an annual cash budget which will include wages as well as transfer fees. If they underspend on transfer fees one year, this can translate into higher wages or a renewed contract. Take the Carroll sale for instance. We sold one player (earning around £40k a week) but brought in 4 or 5 with the transfer fee, who will probably be earning somewhere in the region of £150-200k per week combined. Assuming 5 year deals, that equates to a £10m saving over 5 years for Carroll, but an additional cost of between 40-50m in wages. Wages are a huge, huge part of the discussion as it's the biggest component of net spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4145 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Did you not read any of the previous comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 2% above the median could mean that 9 teams have wages bills 30m below ours. The massive wage bills of 3 or 4 clubs might drag the mean up but not by as much as you expect given the bottom quartile(s) have massively lower bills. Not saying you're wrong, just that your 'given' statement added nothing for the statistically minded. Soz Chez. To clarify, there isn't a club in the league with a bill £30m below ours. there's only 4 clubs with wage bills £20m+ less. Quartiles are.... 201.8 94.9 62.9 50.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Did you not read any of the previous comments? Yes, I read all of them thanks. Regardless of the conclusions we come to, we should still be taking wages into account. How can you talk about net spend if you miss the biggest number out from the very beginning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4145 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yes, I read all of them thanks. Regardless of the conclusions we come to, we should still be taking wages into account. How can you talk about net spend if you miss the biggest number out from the very beginning? First rule of comparison is you set off the constants. Meaning if we were the only club that paid wages, or we paid them well above other clubs, what you say might make some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 First rule of comparison is you set off the constants. Meaning if we were the only club that paid wages, or we paid them well above other clubs, what you say might make some sense. The wages aren't constants though, they vary massively from £30m right up to £260m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9298 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Our commercial income has been halved under Mike Ashley's reign. But our "profitability" has risen and you said profit not commercial income Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The wages aren't constants though, they vary massively from £30m right up to £260m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4145 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The wages aren't constants though, they vary massively from £30m right up to £260m. Doesn't matter in this analysis as we are below the average, as illustrated in the above table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 No Premier league club spends less per supporter through the turnstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What about proportionate to ticket income as we're quite cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Cheers for that. That paints a picture that I expected. There's the top 6 who are spending a lot more than the rest. Then there's the next group below, around the £60-70m mark. Sunderland and Villa are the two surprising cases, who have gained nowt from spending more. What it says to me is that to make any significant move into the upper echelons of the league, we'd need to be spending in line with the top 5 in that table. That would equate to pretty much doubling our yearly outlay, which is clearly not feasible with our level of turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 For every £1 earned on a matchday, the clubs spend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So we're bottom of the net spend table, 12th in the wages table yet 7th in the revenue table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Cheers for that. That paints a picture that I expected. There's the top 6 who are spending a lot more than the rest. Then there's the next group below, around the £60-70m mark. Sunderland and Villa are the two surprising cases, who have gained nowt from spending more. What it says to me is that to make any significant move into the upper echelons of the league, we'd need to be spending in line with the top 5 in that table. That would equate to pretty much doubling our yearly outlay, which is clearly not feasible with our level of turnover. I don't think people are looking up the league. They are worrying about survival. A refusal to buy where we are short means people are doubly worried about a few injuries happening. If Remy was spannered for example, we would be fucked. Because we spend at the level just above the Championship clubs, not alongside the top flight stalwarts that never challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Ashley's plan is fairly simple really. Run the club at the bare minimum but just enough to stay in the PL so he can get his money back and get the fuck out of dodge. Then he and us will be happy. It's just how long it takes for the club to pay him back and how good an offer to buy the club he gets. Sooner rather than later for everyone involved really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's pretty much a staright line relationship over a cfew years - the more you spnd the higher you finish - unless you go bust of course as 'peg says Ashley will hang on in the hope he'll get his cash back and sell to another deep pocketed idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) It's pretty much a staright line relationship over a cfew years - the more you spnd the higher you finish - unless you go bust of course as 'peg says Ashley will hang on in the hope he'll get his cash back and sell to another deep pocketed idiot Welcome back Rob...I've missed you're subtle antics. Edited November 21, 2013 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's pretty much a staright line relationship over a cfew years - the more you spnd the higher you finish - unless you go bust of course Sunderland fans may disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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