Mike Ashley -- Irrelevant Cunt

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Accurate, but QF of the Europa does not yet vindicate him.

 

Im not saying it does , Im wondering what he will do outside the box over the next three years and whether we'll go back, stagnate or go forward and how it will be achieved.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

ashley still has to prove that performances on the pitch are as important as performances off the pitch. to do that we need to stop the revolving door transfer policy. keep hold of our best players and try to rid the current image we have as a stepping stone club for players to put themselves in the shop window then move on to better things after a season or two. only sell players for silly money in other words.

 

 

What revolving door?

We do keep hold of our best players bar the one exception who was sold for "silly money" as you describe.

[PaddockLad 17241]

If FFP does indeed level the playing field then Ashley might come out of it looking better than he does now. if, as i suspect, it does little to change anything, then we will continue to blow hot and cold and are unlikely to regularly challenge the top 4, as a club of our size and potential ought to.

 

ashley still has to prove that performances on the pitch are as important as performances off the pitch. do do that we need to stop the revolving door transfer policy. keep hold of our best players and try to rid ourselves of the current image we have as a stepping stoen club for players to put themselves in the shop window then move on to better things. after a season or two. only sell players for silly money in other words.

 

tbf to the so-called 'football genuis' he's yet to better the much maligned previous regime in terms of performances on the pitch and he helped guide us to a relegation. he has got a lot of ground to make up before we start talking about him in glowing terms.

 

Disagree. No way of advancing the next level without selling.Sadly, Its all about money. Thats the next step. If we do sell Cabaye say, could we pay a better player more with what we generate from the sale?...it seems unlikely, but thats the way we've got to go, in the short term at least. Ashley's wallet is closed.

[ewerk 30547]

His aim is very simple, it's to ensure that the club continues to pay its own way.

Edited March 26, 2013 by ewerk

[PaddockLad 17241]

Well we could have asked both those questions a couple of years ago and Ashley "the genius" found a way to do it by recruiting great talent, for pennies by concentrating on France.

 

Regardless of anything else its being a good policy that has paid off (and thats before we cash in on some of the players we have got for buttons).

 

The point of this thread was to venture a guess at what he'll do next?

 

Will we have a similar master stroke to play?

 

Does he have another plan to get us to the next level without simply throwing money at big signings on big wages (a policy which I agree is unlikely).

 

While the top four might be 4 or 5 years away in "his" grand plan, securing us as regular top six players would be good and may be doable.

 

Im sure he must look at some of the "smaller" clubs within the top 10 and wonder how they can do what they do without pots of money and lesser squads / players.

 

See my post above. You only gain a real advantage when the very good players are sold and replaced hopefully with better players, with higher wages generated from the sale.Its very difficult to pull it off. Lyon did it in France, but apprently its one of the most attractive cities in Europe. Whatever we all personally feel about the North East, its unlikely to make Johnny Foreigner hang around for anything other than hard cash and a good crowd to play in front of for 2-3 seasons.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

See my post above. You only gain a real advantage when the very good players are sold and replaced hopefully with better players, with higher wages generated from the sale.Its very difficult to pull it off. Lyon did it in France, but apprently its one of the most attractive cities in Europe. Whatever we all personally feel about the North East, its unlikely to make Johnny Foreigner hang around for anything other than hard cash and a good crowd to play in front of for 2-3 seasons.

 

I agree with some of that but surely the last few years has shown we have been able to attract very good players to the North East (and so far kept them) on realistic wages. Surely if that policy continues and the dead wood is replaced through out most of the squad with more talent, then we will be in an even stronger position than currently?

 

I appreciate so good players will eventually move on but at least the length of contracts we are giving out makes that more on our terms than the players.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

What revolving door?

We do keep hold of our best players bar the one exception who was sold for "silly money" as you describe.

 

well that's just wrong isn't it. demba ba, being the most recent example.

 

in summer 2011 we lost carroll, enrique, nolan, barton, routeledge - 5 first team players. in summer 2012 we didn't see a big exit of first team players, but then we signed no one of note except anita. who knows what this summer will bring? i'm more optimistic than in the past that ashley might try to add to exisiting squad rather than rebuild again but i wouldn't count on it.

 

his transfer policy has definitely been flawed so far though - that's without question. our squads have generally been way too small. even now after an excellent january window, we're still short of strikers by one or two. shola is nowhere near good enough as second choice striker for a side with top 4 aspirations.

 

i accept that occasionally we will lose a player to a bigger club but to really move the us forward and challenge for the top 4, as you say, we need a bigger squad. that means keeping a group of players together for more than 18 months or two years and adding quality to it. that also means paying a bigger collective wage bill, something i doubt he's prepared to do.

[PaddockLad 17241]

I agree with some of that but surely the last few years has shown we have been able to attract very good players to the North East (and so far kept them) on realistic wages. Surely if that policy continues and the dead wood is replaced through out most of the squad with more talent, then we will be in an even stronger position than currently?

 

I appreciate so good players will eventually move on but at least the length of contracts we are giving out makes that more on our terms than the players.

 

The contract length is in proportion to the lower wages though...if the player moves without asking for a transfer the player gets his salary paid up, so he's not losing anything in the long term and the club benefits by paying a lower yearly salary.

 

The only way to keep the players in the long term is to pay them the same theyd get at a regular top 4/5 club. They've got to maximise earnings, its a short career...or so their agents will tell them. Thats how we kept 3-4 premier league standard players when we got relegated. If there was a "relegation clause" in their contracts you wouldnt have seen Colo,Barton and Smith for dust. To pay bigger wages you need more income. How so you raise income? by selling a couple of players for big money. See Carrol, A. currently of East London via Merseyside. The money for wages in the championship came from Ashleys pocket, that wont be happening again.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

well that's just wrong isn't it. demba ba, being the most recent example.

 

in summer 2011 we lost carroll, enrique, nolan, barton, routeledge - 5 first team players. in summer 2012 we didn't see a big exit of first team players, but then we signed no one of note except anita. who knows what this summer will bring? i'm more optimistic than in the past that ashley might try to add to exisiting squad rather than rebuild again but i wouldn't count on it.

 

his transfer policy has definitely been flawed so far though - that's without question. our squads have generally been way too small. even now after an excellent january window, we're still short of strikers by one or two. shola is nowhere near good enough as second choice striker for a side with top 4 aspirations.

 

i accept that occasionally we will lose a player to a bigger club but to really move the us forward and challenge for the top 4, as you say, we need a bigger squad. that means keeping a group of players together for more than 18 months or two years and adding quality to it. that also means paying a bigger collective wage bill, something i doubt he's prepared to do.

 

Hold on. Demba Ba was a gamble that both parties took and the club had no choice in his exit.

 

Enrique refused to stay and Carroll went for "silly money".

 

That leaves Barton, Nolan and Routledge who I think we've improved on pretty well.

[trophyshy 7083]

Im not saying it does , Im wondering what he will do outside the box over the next three years and whether we'll go back, stagnate or go forward and how it will be achieved.

 

Put a question mark after the word genius then.

[David Kelly 1244]

well that's just wrong isn't it. demba ba, being the most recent example.

 

in summer 2011 we lost carroll, enrique, nolan, barton, routeledge - 5 first team players. in summer 2012 we didn't see a big exit of first team players, but then we signed no one of note except anita. who knows what this summer will bring? i'm more optimistic than in the past that ashley might try to add to exisiting squad rather than rebuild again but i wouldn't count on it.

 

his transfer policy has definitely been flawed so far though - that's without question. our squads have generally been way too small. even now after an excellent january window, we're still short of strikers by one or two. shola is nowhere near good enough as second choice striker for a side with top 4 aspirations.

 

i accept that occasionally we will lose a player to a bigger club but to really move the us forward and challenge for the top 4, as you say, we need a bigger squad. that means keeping a group of players together for more than 18 months or two years and adding quality to it. that also means paying a bigger collective wage bill, something i doubt he's prepared to do.

Carroll was sold for a ridiculous amount that no club would have turned down (we just should have had a replacement lined up)

Routeledge was universally considered to be not good enough

Ricky wanted to go and his contract was running out so we were left with little choice

Nolan and Barton would have been good players to keep in the squad but I think their sales were tactical due to their age and what were looking to replace them with.

I hate Ashley as much as the next man but I don't think these sales demonstrate a revolving door selling policy. I agree with Paddocklad that the only way forward is to sell our better players and I think these sales you mention are an example of that and tbf it's worked. We will need to do the same again with the likes of Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Tiote and Sissoko if we are to move forward again because Ashley won't make his own money available to us and we don't have another revenue stream capable of providing such an influx of funds. Can we sell these players and bring in better? That's going to be extremely difficult imo but what we may be able to fill the squad with a more consistent level of quality that can keep us towards the European spots. Top four though is next to impossible given the gulf in financial muscle between them and us. We may be able to sneak in there the odd time if one or more of the regulars had an off season but if they do they will spend what's required to get back in. We aren't going to be able to do that as long as he owns us. And even selling us isn't going to help unless it's to someone with almost limitless cash that they're willing to spunk on us. Even then FFP may prevent that.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Carroll was sold for a ridiculous amount that no club would have turned down (we just should have had a replacement lined up)

Routeledge was universally considered to be not good enough

Ricky wanted to go and his contract was running out so we were left with little choice

Nolan and Barton would have been good players to keep in the squad but I think their sales were tactical due to their age and what were looking to replace them with.

I hate Ashley as much as the next man but I don't think these sales demonstrate a revolving door selling policy. I agree with Paddocklad that the only way forward is to sell our better players and I think these sales you mention are an example of that and tbf it's worked. We will need to do the same again with the likes of Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Tiote and Sissoko if we are to move forward again because Ashley won't make his own money available to us and we don't have another revenue stream capable of providing such an influx of funds. Can we sell these players and bring in better? That's going to be extremely difficult imo but what we may be able to fill the squad with a more consistent level of quality that can keep us towards the European spots. Top four though is next to impossible given the gulf in financial muscle between them and us. We may be able to sneak in there the odd time if one or more of the regulars had an off season but if they do they will spend what's required to get back in. We aren't going to be able to do that as long as he owns us. And even selling us isn't going to help unless it's to someone with almost limitless cash that they're willing to spunk on us. Even then FFP may prevent that.

 

i actually quite liked routeledge plus he was replaced by obertan - an improvement? i'd say not based on his form at swansea and orbertan's for us.

 

my point is that selling 5 first team players in a transfer window is rebuilding the squad, not adding to it. and this isn't how to build a successful club. to really kick on, we need to add players to the exisiting squad, keep a core group of top players together for a few seasons, get rid of players not considered enough good enough for the first team, and only sell the odd first team player for silly money. it's a squad game and our squad has been found to be way too weak for the majority of ashley's time in charge. i blame the owner entirely for this season's under achievement.

 

has he learnt his lesson? the signs in january were positive but we'll get a better idea after the summer window closes. one thing is clear though - he is nowhere near being the football genius the thread-starter suggests.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[Tom 14011]

A football genius would have improved on the squad in Summer, cementing our challenge on the top 4 & using the foundation we'd built last season.

 

He didn't & we have only been saved thanks to a gamble in January. Tiny squad, shit loads of injuries, suspensions, bad luck, bad decisions.

 

Only a complete wum would be heaping praise on Ashley.

[BigWalrus 0]

Ashley threads are pointless.

 

Everyone has their opinion, which is basically set in stone and impossible to change.

 

These threads only serve to polarise opinion and make people over-critical or over-defensive depending on their standpoint.

 

I'll be keeping out of this one.

[Asprilla 96]

Ashley threads are pointless.

 

Everyone has their opinion, which is basically set in stone and impossible to change.

 

These threads only serve to polarise opinion and make people over-critical or over-defensive depending on their standpoint.

 

I'll be keeping out of this one.

Disagree that opinions of Ashley are set in stone for everyone.

 

I am fickle and if we keep hold of good players and buy better ones and even....win something! I will give the credit to Ashley.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Disagree that opinions of Ashley are set in stone for everyone.

 

I am fickle and if we keep hold of good players and buy better ones and even....win something! I will give the credit to Ashley.

 

me too. he'll always be a cunt though. that won't ever change.

[Gemmill 44804]

CT or Ashley?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

CT or Ashley?

 

Ashley. CT's more of a tit than a cunt

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

The top 5 finish last year and a 1/4 final place in Europe, £8mil profit over the last few years with another profit to be announced this week. A lot of things are going right atm. When you consider the Mackems have an £80mil deficit over the same time period and haven't finished out of the bottom half of the table yet...

[The Fish 10849]

A genius?

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Creased at this thread like.

[David Kelly 1244]

i actually quite liked routeledge plus he was replaced by obertan - an improvement? i'd say not based on his form at swansea and orbertan's for us.

 

my point is that selling 5 first team players in a transfer window is rebuilding the squad, not adding to it. and this isn't how to build a successful club. to really kick on, we need to add players to the exisiting squad, keep a core group of top players together for a few seasons, get rid of players not considered enough good enough for the first team, and only sell the odd first team player for silly money. it's a squad game and our squad has been found to be way too weak for the majority of ashley's time in charge. i blame the owner entirely for this season's under achievement.

 

has he learnt his lesson? the signs in january were positive but we'll get a better idea after the summer window closes. one thing is clear though - he is nowhere near being the football genius the thread-starter suggests.

I can't remember anyone saying much (if anything) positive about Routeledge once we got promoted. In the Championship he did very well for us but he never looked likely to reproduce it in the premier league. Of course with hindsight, he's done well for Swansea and Obertan is the very definition of dog shite.

What you're saying about building I don't disagree with at all. But I don't believe this is the way Ashley will see it because it would require the money for new players coming from somewhere other than player sales. If we only keep shipping out dead wood we will inevitably not bring much money in. So unless we increase our revenue by other means we won't have the funds to spend. What are the other revenue streams? We've just signed with Wonga so our main sponsor and stadium naming rights is sorted for a few years. Are we likely to bring much in from secondary sponsors? I wouldn't think so. Prize money is unlikely to increase without spending more on the squad so nothing doing there. Can supporters spend much more on tickets? Not in this economy!

Player sales is the only way to go. I'm not suggesting we're going to flog all our better players in one go but I do think it's inevitable that we will likely lose one each season (the new tv money might give us a season off this summer) and that will be for good money that we can use to possibly bring two first team players in as a replacement. Like you say Ashley is no genius but this is a sensible approach to keep moving on. Let's face it very successful teams in other countries have employed this method for years. Ajax (admittedly more with the help of their academy than bringing in cheap players from France) have done this for a long time and it's allowed them to regularly win trophies and compete in the champions league. The only difference is that they can go further with it in their country because there aren't any other teams there who have access to such a disproportionate wealth like the top teams here can.

[Rayvin 5217]

If we make a profit, and they're determined that the club pays its way - presumably that profit can go back into the club, at least partially. So a profit of £8mill could see maybe £4mill go towards another player. £10mill for Wonga. That would give us a £14mill budget this summer - not amazing, but we could get a pretty good striker for that, and that's without selling anyone.

 

Ashley doesn't give a shit about any of us, he's just a businessman - in fairness, he's not pretended to be anything other than that for the past couple of years. I'm fine with that if they deliver, and I'm reasonably happy that they've done so. I don't think we were ever going to get to 5th again this year with Europa going on as well, and yes they were made to look stupid by not signing anyone over the summer, but assuming we don't get relegated they're unlikely to make that mistake again as ultimately it's cost them more money to get players sooner.

 

He's not a genius, the only thing he's doing is running the club like a business and not a plaything. That is literally the only difference. And honestly, I think I prefer it.

[Kitman 2204]

Ashley's ambition is to make a profit on his shares without having to dip into his pocket any further. I think he wants to build the value of the club to the point where someone will buy his shares off him. He has no affection for us and I think he doesn't give a shit whether we win anything or not. imo the reason he didn't buy enough players in the summer was because he thought he could increase the net worth of the club without it; the reason he bought the players in January was to protect his investment in the club against the financial disaster of relegation, especially with significantly more money on offer next season for being a premiership club.

 

I just don't think the football - in the sense we look at it - matters to him much. We're just another business he owns which needs to give him a return on investment, I don't think he cares about Newcastle, the club or the fans at all. Maybe turning around a struggling business gives him a hard on. I think he's happy to build the business organically if it makes financial sense but he's not going to do it for the sake of winning one of the cups. I don't see us spending much in the summer tbh, I think we'll still have a small squad of purples and we'll move on a few of the second tier players who weren't up to it, and looking to pick up cheap development players to replace them from Graham Carr's notebook. Pardieu will still be our manager. We will still require lots of luck to be successful.

 

I think we'll carry on in this vein until he can shift his shares. So I don't think he's a football genius, he seems pretty good at business though. I don't follow NUFC for the financial results unfortunately.

[Howmanheyman 33121]

Can just see the little grin on CT's face as he pressed 'post' after typing the word 'Genuis' in his title thread and waited for the replies to come in.