FAO Leazes

[The Fish 10876]

Must admit too, a part of me is just as bored with all this as other people are, I've made this point before as we all know but nothing whatsoever has happened at the football club to see any reason to change it, that's all.

Why is it that, when this model has been universally lauded by owners, managers, pundits, journalists and even other fans, you still remain a lone voice proclaiming the End is Nigh?

 

Oh and you're not bored of it, not an inch of you is bored of it, you'll keep replying to these questions and more because that's what defines you.

 

Until you stop your hypocrisy, people will hold it up for the rest of us to see.

 

Also re: the 6,000 more posts, I have indeed made many more posts than you, but on a huge variety of subjects whereas yours are overwhelmingly about 1 subject; Your pathological need to tell people that you're "right".

Edited July 19, 2012 by The Fish

[LeazesMag 0]

Why is it that, when this model has been universally lauded by owners, managers, pundits, journalists and even other fans, you still remain a lone voice proclaiming the End is Nigh?

 

Oh and you're not bored of it, not an inch of you is bored of it, you'll keep replying to these questions and more because that's what defines you.

 

Until you stop your hypocrisy, people will hold it up for the rest of us to see.

 

no hypocrisy from me Fish, I've been saying the same thing for years. It's others who keep moving the goalposts. If you want success, you back your manager as much as possible, you don't sell players and keep the money. I'm bored of having to bang my head against a brick wall with some of you lot is what I mean.

 

In a few years time, people will ask where the money went. The same as what I say in my sig is slowly but surely happening and I've had flak for saying this for years too. One day you will learn to listen rather than allow your heart to rule your common sense.

 

I don't care if other people have "lauded" what has happened last season, a lot of them are simply patronising anyway, like the cockney press who are happy that we don't seriously challenge their darlings so create the impression we are doing really well and should be happy with that, when they also know deep down we can still do much better.

 

More fool you for being taken in by them.

[Alex 35120]

I've been saying the same thing for years.

Something we can all agree on.

[JawD 99]

[JawD 99]

I was going to mention Cole-Ferdinand-Shearer in exactly the same context but thought the usual plebs would have accused me of harping back to the Halls and Shepherd again, so didn't.

 

We knew KK etc had aims, because they said so, and because they showed us they meant business. Another example actually is the signing of Fox, who was replaced by Gillespie [for less money too] because the manager saw him and rated him as the better player even though he was happy enough with Fox when he bought him and improved the team when he bought him.

 

This is how you do it. Brian Clough and Peter Taylor used to say to players that as soon as they were able to sign a better player then they would be out, because that was their job, and that is spot on. But to retain the ambition, you have to keep your best players at the same time/allow the manager to run his own team and back him as much as possible. There is a fundamental and subtle difference between selling and/to replacing, and building then selling.

 

The club is sitting on a wedge of cash from the sale of Carroll and other players, and I've commented on a post by Gemmill this morning where he says that last season could be the closest we may get to a champions League place. I think this is spot on [although I hope I am wrong] - the point being that we got close, and COULD have done it rather than sit on that cash.

 

Noooooooooo.

 

The club is sitting on a wedge of cash? I have to disagree. But Im not even going into that as its been done to death.

 

you say with a bit more ambition we could have made 4th. So, with more ambition could Man Utd have reached 1st? Did that make Man Utd unambitious?

 

What about Arsenal? Spending pattern similar to ours, were they unambitious but over achieved?

 

this is why I say you cant simply think ambition = £ spent on players. Thats far too simplistic.

 

KK had aims? dont forget the uproar when we sold Cole.

 

The one big thing you need to think about, is that MA is not running the club from any blueprint of success. Hell, I dare say no one is. There is no magic formula as you seem to say else everyone would use it. there is no simple ABC for us to reach 4th. MA has a way he wants to run the business. In his typical maverick style he wants to rip up the books and do it his own way. Every pundit and player and manager is starting to applaud his approach and he is slowly getting fans onside as we see results where is matters. On the pitch, not on the balance sheet. Ive said again and again I dont give a fuck is we have £5M of the AC money left or have over spent it by £5M. Who cares? All I know is last season we finished back in Europe, something we havent looked like doing for a long time, we're playing good football, its good to watch the team again, something that has been missing for a long time. these are the things Im bothered about.

[Gemmill 44995]

It would be truer to say that we got as close as we did last season BECAUSE the club showed some ambition in January. That view does nothing for his agenda though.

[JawD 99]

Well that is true. We had a flying start to the year and were well placed come Christmas. they could just have easy sat on their hands and maintained that a top half finish was their aim.

[Happy Face 29]

Have you heard of the phrases "if you don't take a shot you won't score a goal" or "if you don't buy a ticket you won't win the lottery". It's as simple as that as a concept. I won't bother explaining this to you anymore.

 

True. Of course only a fucking idiot would shoot from their own box or borrow money to buy lottery tickets. Most would play the ball forward to a good poition in or around the opposition box, or earn some money of their own, buy food, heat, water and that...then if they have a little left over, buy a lottery ticket.

[LeazesMag 0]

True. Of course only a fucking idiot would shoot from their own box or borrow money to buy lottery tickets. Most would play the ball forward to a good poition in or around the opposition box, or earn some money of their own, buy food, heat, water and that...then if they have a little left over, buy a lottery ticket.

 

only a fucking idiot would run backwards towards their own box with the ball too.

 

and only a fucking idiot would get to the edge of the box and pass the ball sideways or give it to the opposition

Edited July 19, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Happy Face 29]

It would be truer to say that we got as close as we did last season BECAUSE the club showed some ambition in January. That view does nothing for his agenda though.

 

I don't think the club did what was being cried out for in January.

 

It's comendable that we went and spent £8m on a striker, it was a long term target we got at our price, a good deal less than they'd been asking. But with Ba banging the goals in and Shola, Best, Lovenkrands and Ranger all available to play alongside him or to cover it wasn't what was vital for the final push. That we could secure him didn't mean we couldn't fix the glaring problem as well either.

 

Without Taylor our centre back situation was (and still is) woeful. Simpson and Williamson started as our centre backs against Monaco this week, with Perch as cover. We had nowt but Coloccini available most of the season after Taylor was crocked, and we did nowt (have still done nowt) to sort that.

 

The policy is to buy the players that can turn a profit as opposed to those that can make an immediate impact on our season. Until Taylor got injured we weren't even conceding a goal a game (11 in 12), after that it jumped to more than one and a half (40 in 26).

[Happy Face 29]

only a fucking idiot would run backwards towards their own box with the ball too.

 

Applying the analogy back to football, that's exactly what Ashley did up to 2009, the fucking idiot.

 

But every year since, we've done better, spent more, lost less, finished higher up the table.

 

There's a level of absolutism about your complaints. Until Ashley wins a title you won't have him given any credit. Until he starts going backwards again I think it's best only to keep his failures in mind, while respecting the improvements.

[Alex 35120]

I thought there was a stat (on the beeb) whereby we conceded fewer goals with Williamson in the team (I'll try and find it). Either way, I find it inconceivable that a centre-back would've had a bigger or more positive impact than Cisse. And we tried to sign Mariappa (sp?) as a stop-gap. If a first team CB were available at the right money I think we'd have gone in for him (and probably got him).

Obviously we need a CB like, but it's not just a case of needing a player and then going out and buying him in January, although I take on board what you're saying, HF. Sell-on value / value for money is obviously an important factor in the players we buy. I'm inclined to think that's a good thing though.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

Leazes - What was your pen name when you wrote for The Mag (if you dont mind me asking) ?

[Happy Face 29]

As i said, it's a great way to go about your long term strategy. Absolutely a good thing. But you also have to roll with the punches of a season. I don't think it was either Cisse or a CB, I think we just didn't buy a centre back as we didn't have anyone we were willing to pay the asking price for.

 

*Pre Cisse we scored 26/24 (1.5 per game), after his arrival 20/14 (1.4), so although he was a revelation and a clear asset, the team as a whole weren't any more potent....he just took the goalscorers role.

[Alex 35120]

As i said, it's a great way to go about your long term strategy. Absolutely a good thing. But you also have to roll with the punches of a season. I don't think it was either Cisse or a CB, I think we just didn't buy a centre back as we didn't have anyone we were willing to pay the asking price for.

 

*Pre Cisse we scored 26/24 (1.5 per game), after his arrival 20/14 (1.4), so although he was a revelation and a clear asset, the team as a whole weren't any more potent....he just took the goalscorers role.

Obviously you can't prove it either way and you could argue Ba suffered as a result of Cisse coming in but I think he'd have lost form anyway (or, to be more precise, he already had) so we'd have scored a lot less without Cisse.

Re: the CB, given we probably should've signed one last summer and that we didn't then or in January then my opinion would change if we don't get at least one this summer because of the extra time etc. It's worth noting they realised the value of Colo and gave him a new deal like when everyone assumed he'd go with a year left on his contract.

[LeazesMag 0]

I don't think the club did what was being cried out for in January.

 

It's comendable that we went and spent £8m on a striker, it was a long term target we got at our price, a good deal less than they'd been asking. But with Ba banging the goals in and Shola, Best, Lovenkrands and Ranger all available to play alongside him or to cover it wasn't what was vital for the final push. That we could secure him didn't mean we couldn't fix the glaring problem as well either.

 

Without Taylor our centre back situation was (and still is) woeful. Simpson and Williamson started as our centre backs against Monaco this week, with Perch as cover. We had nowt but Coloccini available most of the season after Taylor was crocked, and we did nowt (have still done nowt) to sort that.

 

The policy is to buy the players that can turn a profit as opposed to those that can make an immediate impact on our season. Until Taylor got injured we weren't even conceding a goal a game (11 in 12), after that it jumped to more than one and a half (40 in 26).

 

exactly.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

[LeazesMag 0]

Obviously you can't prove it either way and you could argue Ba suffered as a result of Cisse coming in but I think he'd have lost form anyway (or, to be more precise, he already had) so we'd have scored a lot less without Cisse.

Re: the CB, given we probably should've signed one last summer and that we didn't then or in January then my opinion would change if we don't get at least one this summer because of the extra time etc. It's worth noting they realised the value of Colo and gave him a new deal like when everyone assumed he'd go with a year left on his contract.

 

sometimes, a stop gap is the way to go, there is nothing wrong with it, if you have no budget left or a big player is injured for instance. It all depends. At the end of the day, if the manager wants a stop gap for whatever reason, and he thinks you need it, then you should do it.

 

We should really have replaced Taylor, sod the short term expense, it could have reaped big rewards. It may not have done either, but that's football. They should have done it, and if Pardew decided not to, then it is his mistake. If someone stopped him, then it is their mistake.

 

As HF has said, we STILL need another centre back........

[JawD 99]

So, were Man Utd unambitious when they didnt replace injured players and then finished 2nd?

 

What about Arsenal?

[LeazesMag 0]

So, were Man Utd unambitious when they didnt replace injured players and then finished 2nd?

 

What about Arsenal?

 

firstly, are you seriously suggesting that both ManU and Arsenal have not allowed their managers to manage and backed them over all these years, having qualified for the Champions League as often and winning so many trophies ?

 

secondly, we aren't talking about ManU or Arsenal. I don't care about ManU or Arsenal. We are talking about NUFC, and the fact that they were sitting on a pile of cash from sales that could have been used to hopefully further assist the manager to get the club into the Champions League. I'm sure if most of us knew we needed a replacement for Taylor, then the manager must have done too. Who decided not to do it and on what grounds ?

 

Will this mistake be repeated ?

[LeazesMag 0]

Arsenal is a questionable example to use for a "backing their managers" argument considering why a lot of the better players left in recent years.

 

yes, I realise that, I was answering JawD. They have lost a few great players, but it has essentially been Wengers decision to do what he wanted with the money. That is how it should be. If Arsenal aren't happy with him either doing nothing with it or wasting it, then it is up to them to sack him.

[Baggio 0]

exactly.

 

Surely that easy start you kept telling us we had last season plays it's part in the stats though considering Taylor played in the first 10 games?

[JawD 99]

yes, I realise that, I was answering JawD. They have lost a few great players, but it has essentially been Wengers decision to do what he wanted with the money. That is how it should be. If Arsenal aren't happy with him either doing nothing with it or wasting it, then it is up to them to sack him.

 

they also have the greatest net spend of recent times. More so than us, which was my point. But they havent won the league, so are they being unambitious?

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Leazes - What was your pen name when you wrote for The Mag (if you dont mind me asking) ?

 

I thought he wrote for True Faith?

[LoveTheBobby 1]

 

 

I thought he wrote for True Faith?

 

Not sure mate, just he mentioned writing for The Mag and I've asked him twice now, but he's ignoring me for whatever reason . Was genuinely interested as I used to read it years ago not because I was going to go through a stash a decade old to see if he'd once said Souness had a nice muzzy .