Renton 21643 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Exactly. If it will be used well. Ie dont spend it for the sake of spending it. They kept money back and bought Cisse in Jan. this was massive for us. Keeping money back allows us to react as the squad needs (as per AP). This makes perfect sense to me. Before you reply, the club is self financing, that's why we didn't do both. Fact (FACT) is, their strategy worked. Better than we all expected. Whatever their plan, we finished top 6, got into Europe, stayed in the black financially. Any manager in the league from us down would have loved that. Absolutely, well said. It's quite a twisted take on matters to complain that although we were successful (and we were massively successful considering it was only our second year back in the PL and who the competitors are in 2012) but we should have spent more money, for the sake of it basically, despite the huge debts the club incurred from the previous regime. I mean seriously, what the fuck? Anyone who can't enjoy the moment and look to the future with some optimism needs to have a look at themselves and what their motives are. To do this though you need a degree of self awareness, and some people apparently just don't have this. A whole season apparently was just a 'good run' or a 'blip' to some people. If we do well next season, this will still be the case for them. And the next etc. Time to find a new thing to do on Saturdays and stop posting on football message boards I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've said before and I'll say it again, just my opinion and LM knows this. I think his desire to be right about MA an his different approach (in it failing) is more important than acknowledging anything he ever does well. My stance is always credit where it's due. I couldn't give a fuck about being right or wrong. I think LM is so entrenched in his view he can't support the regime or acknowledge its relative success without being wrong. That leaves him in a no win situation do instead just waits for it to fail (which it will) be it 1,2,5 or 10 years. It will go tits up at some point. It is NUFC afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Absolutely, well said. It's quite a twisted take on matters to complain that although we were successful (and we were massively successful considering it was only our second year back in the PL and who the competitors are in 2012) but we should have spent more money, for the sake of it basically, despite the huge debts the club incurred from the previous regime. I mean seriously, what the fuck? Anyone who can't enjoy the moment and look to the future with some optimism needs to have a look at themselves and what their motives are. To do this though you need a degree of self awareness, and some people apparently just don't have this. A whole season apparently was just a 'good run' or a 'blip' to some people. If we do well next season, this will still be the case for them. And the next etc. Time to find a new thing to do on Saturdays and stop posting on football message boards I reckon. welcome to the blind school, where even the most obvious thing escapes you. You don't even read half of what I say, you only react because it is me that makes the post. I have actually said some of the things you are saying I don't. It has also be pointed out by others, not just me, that this "debt" was mortgaged stadium debt and structured well as such, according to all the financial experts when it was negotiated, unless of course you think they should not have expanded the stadium to capitalise on the support and attempt to keep growing. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've said before and I'll say it again, just my opinion and LM knows this. I think his desire to be right about MA an his different approach (in it failing) is more important than acknowledging anything he ever does well. My stance is always credit where it's due. I couldn't give a fuck about being right or wrong. I think LM is so entrenched in his view he can't support the regime or acknowledge its relative success without being wrong. That leaves him in a no win situation do instead just waits for it to fail (which it will) be it 1,2,5 or 10 years. It will go tits up at some point. It is NUFC afterall. if they do the right thing now, it could lead to years of playing at the top table. It could go tits up if some bad decisions are made, but if they don't attempt it [see my sig] then it has no chance. A club like NUFC ought to always be attempting to be among these other top clubs. This isn't negative JawD, its positive. It's negative to sit back and not understand how big the club is and what it should aim for, and its positive to recognise how this is all achieved. The day Mike Ashley backs his managers, is the day I will back him, but so far after 5 years, we are still waiting. Keegan said so too, and he knows, unless something has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Also the question about 'ambition' is an interesting one. I don't think it is feasible we can win the league now when competing against the spending power of Chelsea and Man City. Fourth/fifth is probably the most we can do in the current climate. Maybe we could nick a cup but being NUFC I can't really see that either (but at least there is hope). That's my opinion, it doesn't mean I have been brainwashed into accepting mediocrity. It's called being a realist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Also the question about 'ambition' is an interesting one. I don't think it is feasible we can win the league now when competing against the spending power of Chelsea and Man City. Fourth/fifth is probably the most we can do in the current climate. Maybe we could nick a cup but being NUFC I can't really see that either (but at least there is hope). That's my opinion, it doesn't mean I have been brainwashed into accepting mediocrity. It's called being a realist. the number of clubs paid for by sugar daddies has increased from 1 to 2. Well done. This means we have no chance of ever finishing higher than 5th, and must accept selling all our best players and replacing them with cheaper replacements. That's your opinion ? Considering we have also just finished above one of those clubs too ? As I said, you don't read anything, you only react because its me. Why don't you dispute what I've said about the stadium, after all it is you who brought it up as "proof" that the club was going to cease to exist and all the other shite that has been peddled over the years by people like you. Fool. Edit. Who is negative and who is positive here btw ? Edited July 16, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 He could not be happier now that he's got a couple of customers for his fucking horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42484 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Do not feed the pig. The pig will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmag 337 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Jeez, are we off again? Even Joseph doesn't get put on the naughty step this often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What?! I thought this was this thread was exactly for. Is there not a sign on the front? "beware all ye who enter here!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 the number of clubs paid for by sugar daddies has increased from 1 to 2. Well done. This means we have no chance of ever finishing higher than 5th, and must accept selling all our best players and replacing them with cheaper replacements. That's your opinion ? Considering we have also just finished above one of those clubs too ? As I said, you don't read anything, you only react because its me. Why don't you dispute what I've said about the stadium, after all it is you who brought it up as "proof" that the club was going to cease to exist and all the other shite that has been peddled over the years by people like you. Fool. Edit. Who is negative and who is positive here btw ? I must admit your absolute lunacy is somewhat amusing. You do realise that this thread has been made purely for the rest of the board to laugh at you, don't you? That's why Stevie referred to it as bullying, and he may have had a point because you really don't get it. Regarding this post though. Firstly, we never competed with Abrohomivic's Chelsea, it partly marked the beginning of the end for the success the old board had, because they nudged us out of the CL places. We finished above them this year because of AVB; it won't happen next year. We can't compete, it's as simple as that, and that is even more true with Man city. Considering you seem to solely relate spending for the sake of it with success, you seem to be suggesting we somehow outspend Man city and Chelsea. How is that possible? If you don't mean this you're contradicting yourself. Again. Your third sentence is classic deranged Leazes and doesn't represent what I think at all. I said we will never win the PL as its currently set up, and you have twisted it into something else entirely. You do this in virtually every post you make to everyone. Thing is, and what you can't seem to grasp, is it makes you look like the idiot, not me. I've said nowt about the stadium. I said the club is in debt because of the previous regime, which it is. This is more Ashley's fault for not doing due dilligence before the purchase than anything else. In some ways I think fair play to the Halls and Shepherd for ripping off Ashley; but on the other hand it is the club that has suffered, so in a way their final act was quite treacherous from a fan's pov. In any case, it is indisputable that we are in debt and need to make the money go as far as possible. Any normal person would think that our dealings in recent years have been superlative, especially how the Caroll deal has transpired. You don't though. What does that tell you about yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 it all depends on your level of ambition though doesn't it ? If people are happy to see 5th as the ultimate, I'm sorry but I think they are misguided and foolish/brainwashed. And it seems that some people are happy with that. I'm 100% confident that unfortunately some people at least who are supporting the current "prudency" will be asking where the money went ie when results aren't so good and they realise what has really happened/is happening. But we will see won't we Times have changed though, in terms of size of club we were a lot closer to MU and Arsenal than we are now 15 years ago. We can't get higher than 4th, certainly not higher than fourth and sustaining it, unless FFP has a huge impact or we get someone like Abramovic. Whether anyone likes it or not Arsenal and Man Utd are much bigger clubs than we are, they're imo two of the very biggest sporting institutions on earth. Chelsea have a man who can afford to spend another billion, and the Arabs at Man City will do the same. We can have all the ambition in the world but we can't play on their level till we get bought. We can nearly compete with Tottenham and Liverpool long term, he's a cunt so he won't spend any more of his own money, but I don't know how we can do more than we are without artificial investment at this moment in time. So I'd say 4th or 5th at this point is as high as we can go so you have to be happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Whether or not 5th is the ultimate is moot but it's a hell of a lot better than the club has done for a good while. I can't realistically see how the previous owners could have done better either. Given 1) They didn't have the money themselves and 2) The access to cheap credit just isn't available any more and 3) Super-rich sugar daddies are willing to fund Chelsea and Man City. On top of which you have clubs like Arsenal and Man Utd who generate a lot more income than us. This is down to Man Utd being one of the top three clubs in the world (arguably the no. 1 in terms of world wide support) and Arsenal filling a brand new ground, week in, week out, whilst having probably the most expensive match tickets in the world (certainly in England). In that context 5th (long term) probably is the ultimate. If it isn't I'd like a detailed explanation as to how we can do better than that. Unless of course someone takes over and is willing to spend several £100m of their own cash on players and wages. Which is something no NUFC owner has been willing (or able) to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It'll be interesting what effect, if any, FFP has. But aye, the gates at the very top of the league are shut to us and all but 3 clubs. It'll be very hard even to equal 5th. Most fans are realistic not brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It'll be interesting what effect, if any, FFP has. But aye, the gates at the very top of the league are shut to us and all but 3 clubs. It'll be very hard even to equal 5th. Most fans are realistic not brainwashed. I was reading that (ironically, Mr Platini) it'll affect Spanish and Italian clubs more than English ones as the EPL still generates a lot more income than La Liga or Serie A. I know you're on about the likes of Chelsea and Man City though. I think Liverpool will struggle to compete too as they already are and they've been bankrolled for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 What?! I thought this was this thread was exactly for. Is there not a sign on the front? "beware all ye who enter here!". nobody needs to beware it's open to anybody who actually reads what I say properly, which clearly Renton does not and never has, for instance. He has major comprehension problems, or is totally illiterate. I realise I am better off not replying to the fools though especially those who have moved the goalposts. Meanwhile JawD, we will see how the club get on. The basic gist is I don't accept the club not backing the manager, they have to give him the best chance possible of matching the 2 teams bankrolled by sugar daddies, after all we have just finished above one of them despite them not really backing him properly so how can you say we can't do better if they did ? At least these posts are all in the same place, makes it easier to find them all later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The two posts above add to what I was saying. I don't understand how we as a club can do better every season or most seasons than we did last year. People that read this board know my feelings, apart from Man Utd no club has a true fanbase better than us, none of them would average 44,000 in the CCC, but over a decade of Champions League success of varying degrees have put Arsenal, Chelsea, and Man Utd in the psyche of every sports fan in the world. Even Liverpool are. We aren't and these clubs are exploiting global markets with turnovers double and treble ours. We're playing friendlies at some social club in Austria that's a 5a to get in Man Utd are playing the best teams in South America in front of 80,000. I don't think the money you generate directly from global markets is the key thing for a truly massive club, I think the exposure you receive around the world means you can demand far greater sponsorship deals because the whole world is aware of you. It's years since Man Utd had an exclusively British sponsor like "SHARP" because they're a worldwide institution. We did as well as we can last season and we should be proud of the players rather than worrying about our possible slump back to 7th or 8th, when if everyone is completely honest about it, there are presently 6 bigger clubs than us, with bigger budgets and bigger turnovers, none of that is Shepherd's fault and none of it is Ashley's fault and it's where we will remain unless we can consistently play in Europe and consistently come top 5, which (at this moment in time) is monumental over achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 nobody needs to beware it's open to anybody who actually reads what I say properly, which clearly Renton does not and never has, for instance. He has major comprehension problems, or is totally illiterate. I realise I am better off not replying to the fools though especially those who have moved the goalposts. Fuck me, extreme irony. Whose changing the goal posts now? Still think we can challenge for the PL title and that I'm brainwashed because I don't think we realistically can? Or are you going to drop this because Stevie agrees with me? Keep the entertainment coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sharp's Japanese like but other than that you're spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sharp's Japanese like but other than that you're spot on Is it? I bet you had to google it. Japanese name like SHARP. I don't even know if they still exist. Even Virgin Money is a good sponsor for us, but they're not world wide. I actually think Sunderland having "Invest in Africa" on their shirts will do them no harm at all, better than Tombola, Boyle Sports or Vaux Samson anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Is it? I bet you had to google it. Japanese name like SHARP. I don't even know if they still exist. Even Virgin Money is a good sponsor for us, but they're not world wide. I actually think Sunderland having "Invest in Africa" on their shirts will do them no harm at all, better than Tombola, Boyle Sports or Vaux Samson anyway. I googled it to check but I assumed it was Japanese (which is why I checked). What British companies were making tellys, video recorders etc. in the 80's like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bush? Should've added 'decent / reliable' We had a Baird tv in the 80s. I'd forgotten all about that. Remember tv repair men btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35120 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Ferguson. They should've sponsored Man Utd. Missed a trick there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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