The root of all evil

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

[NJS 4386]

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

 

Try here: Fact/Theory

 

Theres a slight difference between a few dodgy records and 150 years of scientific research.

[Shearergol 0]

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

The Koran promises paradise to martyrs - should they act on it?

 

 

Bishops sit in the House of Lords, they vote on laws that effect me - I find that abhorrent.

 

 

"Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise)"

 

The Bible says pretty much the same tbh

 

Undoubtedly - I'm an equal-opportunities heretic.

 

 

Koran: 4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

 

Deuteronomy: 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; (13:6-10)

"Thine hand shall be first upon him."

 

If your brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend tries to get you to worship another god, "thou shalt surely kill him, thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death."

 

Should "excused" beliefs allow people to murder non-believers as encouraged here?

 

It's a difficult one. Those who believe strongly in those parts which you have mentioned, are probably mirrored by those who believe Genesis to be fact too. Undoubtedly, there are many dangerous people in the world who do believe in those things. However, there are far more "religious types" who don't believe in those parts of the Kuran/Bible.

 

However, as I defend my right to believe in what I want to believe in, I shouldn't really be able to stop others doing the same.

 

As I said, it's a difficult one, and I honestly don't know the answer.

 

I wish there was no conflict in the world, but I also know that my family (all Christians) haven't directly added to this conflict.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

[Shearergol 0]

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

 

Try here: Fact/Theory

 

Theres a slight difference between a few dodgy records and 150 years of scientific research.

 

Reading it somewhere else doesn't exactly make it fact either . It's fact that we currently don't know where man came from.

[NJS 4386]

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Change "Apes" to "common ancestor with apes" and its atheory with so much evidence it may be stated as a fact - just like Gravity or Electricity.

 

Evolution should be taught in Science lessons - thats where the lies need to be excluded from.

 

You should try working in the numerous Faith schools which aren't as "shy" as yours about brainwashing.

[Renton 21626]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Men and chimpanzees share a common ancestor - that's a fact, yes.

 

I should be more clear on my stance in religion in schools. I don't mind it being taught, as long as the teaching isn't too dogmatic and is based on history. But I strongly object to Faith schools. Less than 15 miles from me there is a school called Emmanuelle college which openly teaches creationism and has a head science teacher who believes in the Bible literally. The state pays for 90% of the school. I'd shut it down tommorrow.

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

[Isegrim 9775]

I haven't read any of the books mentioned, except of parts from Russell. I am reading Paine's "Age of reason" at the moment which is quite interesting.

 

Of course there are many flaws in the bible, but just concentrating on disproving religion by pointing them out is a bit nonsensical as not even the major Christian religions do take the bible that kind of literal anymore. With that kind of accusations you might wind up a couple of religious nutters, but that's all. It's far too simple to reduce the bible in that kind of way. Christianity and the understanding of the bible have always developed and its impacts on our modern "western thinking" are far deeper than the reduction on some historical inaccuracies suggest. The goalposts have been moved right from day one.

 

Nearly half of Americans believe in the Bible literally though.

I'd challenge those figures. Or better I say from those who really take it literally only a very small proportion is dangerous, i.e. religious nutters who take it literal and dispel modern science as well. Those people who just believe that there was a person called Jesus existed and believe in some of the moral teachings based on this do hardly cause harm. I'd say the vast majority of Americans firstly believe in their constitutional system and it's freedom rights. And a lot of these values have - like it or like it not - been developed on the foundations of Christianity. Modern Christianity is not thinkable without the age of enlightenment and therefore got far more "reason" than modern atheists often want to acknowledge. In fact the development of "reason" would be kind of unthinkable if it had come from Christian thoughts itself. That is something that seperates Christianity from more "barbaric" religions as Islam for example, it's ability to adapt. The pope had a kind of point in this regard.

 

I took that from the first post in this thread - 45% of Americans believe the world is less than 10,000 years old. If you've ever been to Texas, you'd hardly find this surprising. And of course one Texan, president Bush, believes in Armageddon and the Rapture. Does this not worry you? It scares the shit out of me, and it affects his policies, such as the Middle East and the environment.

 

The enlightenment was not driven by Christians, rather they have always opposed it. What I'm worried about is that we are in an age where science and rationality is being rejected, the enlightenment is in reverse, so to speak. As a passionate scientist and humanitarian this greatly depresses me, and I think it should be resisted. I wish there were more Richard Dawkins in this world.

 

Btw, might I add your dig at Islam being a barbaric religion, was that supposed to be an ironic joke?

No, it wasn't an ironic joke, because I think that Islam which was once far more "modern" than Christianity got stuck in time without being able to cope with scientific progress. And yes, enlightenment is unthinkable without its Christian forethinkers, e.g. the reformation and newer critical text methods by the likes of Luther, Melanchthon et al. Descartes first aim was to prove that there was actual a god that existed and the list goes on an on. Only later it started more and more to seperate itself from Christianity like in the form of deism (but which for example didn't have a big impact in Germany).

 

Yes, and I do share your worries about a reverse in enlightenment by the new form of Christian orthodoxy like the evangelical right in America. If religious nutters like Ashcroft (the one unable to cope with a naked statue of Justitia and promoting creationism) are getting into important political positions it is indeed a worrying sign.

[NJS 4386]

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

 

Try here: Fact/Theory

 

Theres a slight difference between a few dodgy records and 150 years of scientific research.

 

Reading it somewhere else doesn't exactly make it fact either . It's fact that we currently don't know where man came from.

 

Thats a site with a multitiude of references to peer-published and reviewed scientific evidence - you can't get much more "factual" when it comes to science than that.

 

The full story may not be known (but its quite extensive) - However We do know Man did not "appear" 6000 years ago.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Men and chimpanzees share a common ancestor - that's a fact, yes.

 

I should be more clear on my stance in religion in schools. I don't mind it being taught, as long as the teaching isn't too dogmatic and is based on history. But I strongly object to Faith schools. Less than 15 miles from me there is a school called Emmanuelle college which openly teaches creationism and has a head science teacher who believes in the Bible literally. The state pays for 90% of the school. I'd shut it down tommorrow.

 

Bit harsh, I'd shut down 90% of it!

 

I agree with you though, when funded by the country thats completely unaceptable. If they raised 100% of the running costs every year and funded the building of the school themselves and told parents beforehand what their "curriculum" was then fair enough, but while the country is paying for it, that's terrible.

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Men and chimpanzees share a common ancestor - that's a fact, yes.

 

I should be more clear on my stance in religion in schools. I don't mind it being taught, as long as the teaching isn't too dogmatic and is based on history. But I strongly object to Faith schools. Less than 15 miles from me there is a school called Emmanuelle college which openly teaches creationism and has a head science teacher who believes in the Bible literally. The state pays for 90% of the school. I'd shut it down tommorrow.

 

Can't disagree with that.

 

However, I should point out that we have NEVER found the direct ancestor of Man.

[Radgina 1]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

space ???

[Shearergol 0]

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

 

Try here: Fact/Theory

 

Theres a slight difference between a few dodgy records and 150 years of scientific research.

 

Reading it somewhere else doesn't exactly make it fact either . It's fact that we currently don't know where man came from.

 

Thats a site with a multitiude of references to peer-published and reviewed scientific evidence - you can't get much more "factual" when it comes to science than that.

 

The full story may not be known (but its quite extensive) - However We do know Man did not "appear" 6000 years ago.

 

No, Man "appeared" over 4.4 million years ago. From?

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

space ???

 

Maybe so

[Renton 21626]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

Yes, it does. With modern DNA analysis techniques you can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. The details might not be filled in but that's about it.

 

Do you have a problem accepting humans have no special place in the world (in a biological sense), and are in fact just animals? Plenty of christians do, that's why they hate evolution so much I suspect.

[Renton 21626]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Men and chimpanzees share a common ancestor - that's a fact, yes.

 

I should be more clear on my stance in religion in schools. I don't mind it being taught, as long as the teaching isn't too dogmatic and is based on history. But I strongly object to Faith schools. Less than 15 miles from me there is a school called Emmanuelle college which openly teaches creationism and has a head science teacher who believes in the Bible literally. The state pays for 90% of the school. I'd shut it down tommorrow.

 

Can't disagree with that.

 

However, I should point out that we have NEVER found the direct ancestor of Man.

 

So what? Do you know what proportion of bodies fossilise? It's like looking for a needle in a haystack, and the needle might not even be there.

[Jimbo 175]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

Yes, it does. With modern DNA analysis techniques you can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. The details might not be filled in but that's about it.

 

Do you have a problem accepting humans have no special place in the world (in a biological sense), and are in fact just animals? Plenty of christians do, that's why they hate evolution so much I suspect.

 

That makes a lot more sense than suggesting woman was produced from Adam's rib.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

Even if it doesn't prove where he came from, only that we know we evolved over a massive period of time to the species we are now, we certainly know we didn't spring forth from gods finger (or whatever!) and then get women from losing a spare rib!

 

So leaving aside the theory of evolution, as has been said on here there is more than enough evidence of how long there has been life on earth and the like. So people can quite easilly dismiss anything from Genesis (especially the Phil Colins years)

[NJS 4386]

No, Man "appeared" over 4.4 million years ago. From?

 

Evolved from a common ancestor with Chimps who lived btween 5.5 and 7 mya in Africa - good enough?

 

The Fossils are there, the DNA of chimps and humans (and Neanderthals for good measure) are there. All thats missing is a rejection of the blinkers endowed by God.

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

Naturally! Its backed up by countless scientific evidence, its happening all the time and can be shown to be and its an important part of the biological sciences. If you want you can end that section of biology in school by saying, by the way the bible has another theory on how things came to be, check it out if you like!

 

Do I have to spend time explaining the whole theory of evolution before we continue with this debate?

 

You realise that many parts of the Bible are backed by historical documents? Jesus was around at the time the Bible claimed, and he was also crucified. These are documents which have nothing to do with religion by the way.

 

In the same sense, evolution (the THEORY) has many facts too, and many things which are peoples opinion.

 

Not really, i did it at school.

 

None of the above stuff you mentioned (being from the new testament) has any baring on what i'd previously said. I said the bible has a theory on how humans came to be, and the part of the bible dealing with how humans came to be is genesis and you will do well to find any historical documents backing up that load of nonsense.

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

Yes, it does. With modern DNA analysis techniques you can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. The details might not be filled in but that's about it.

 

Do you have a problem accepting humans have no special place in the world (in a biological sense), and are in fact just animals? Plenty of christians do, that's why they hate evolution so much I suspect.

 

Not at all - and I'm perhaps arguing for the sake of it (I've argued from the other side of the coin too recently by the way).

 

As for you modern DNA techniques - you realise that we haven't actually ever FOUND the "organism/animal" which humans descended from? What DNA are they testing?

 

95% of creatues which lived on this earth will never be found. Kinda makes the whole evolution thing a bit tricky doesn't it.

[Shearergol 0]

 

But people act on their beliefs - you think people should have to prove their belief in order to act on it? If they can't prove that there is a God, do you think they shouldn't be allowed rights to follow the practices of their religion?

 

Out of interest, how are you directly influenced by Christians in this country, because you've obviously got some strong feelings on the matter?

 

Just trimmed the length of post a bit there!

 

Could depend on what act on their beliefs means. For me they can do anything they like (within the law!) that doesn't impact upon those who don't share their views and i'd apply that to most things tbh. There aren't many examples i can think where i'd have a problem with a person of any religion praticing their beliefs tbh, my problem is with people forcing those views on others and influencing things that affect us all (believers and non).

 

With me it has always been when anyhting gets censored, changed, or worst of all cancelled/banned on the basis of a religious argument. There is no other unproven thing (for want of a better word!) that could ever be used to ban tv programmes from broadcast, have films censored or plays picketted and cancelled etc. and thats the thing that annoys me. If i lived in the USA i'd explode

 

But basically i'm the same as Renton and NJS, i think people are entitled to any faith they like but it shouldn't be taught in schools as a subject or have any hint of it being fact applied to it should it be mentioned, that is for kids to decide themselves.

 

Should evolution be taught in school?

 

 

Of course, there is clear scientific evidence of it.

 

There is clear scientific evidence to lead to it's theory.

 

However, much of evolution is open to interpretation. None of the "theory" is fact yet.

 

In fact, we still don't know where humans technically came from (humans as we know them by the way).

 

You're just being pedantic. The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, if we can't treat it as a fact, then what is?

 

Man evolved from apes - fact or not?

 

The point I'm making is following from the comment about teaching about religion in school (by the way, I work in a school which is over 50% islam, which teaches about all the major religions in the world. It teaches what people believe in, how to express their beliefs. It doesn't however tell people what they should believe in).

 

Men and chimpanzees share a common ancestor - that's a fact, yes.

 

I should be more clear on my stance in religion in schools. I don't mind it being taught, as long as the teaching isn't too dogmatic and is based on history. But I strongly object to Faith schools. Less than 15 miles from me there is a school called Emmanuelle college which openly teaches creationism and has a head science teacher who believes in the Bible literally. The state pays for 90% of the school. I'd shut it down tommorrow.

 

Can't disagree with that.

 

However, I should point out that we have NEVER found the direct ancestor of Man.

 

So what? Do you know what proportion of bodies fossilise? It's like looking for a needle in a haystack, and the needle might not even be there.

 

Ahh, so you don't have tp prove it, to believe in it

[Renton 21626]

No, Man "appeared" over 4.4 million years ago. From?

 

Evolved from a common ancestor with Chimps who lived btween 5.5 and 7 mya in Africa - good enough?

 

The Fossils are there, the DNA of chimps and humans (and Neanderthals for good measure) are there. All thats missing is a rejection of the blinkers endowed by God.

 

Creationists love the fact the fossil record is incomplete and use it to reject evolution lock, stock, and barrel. But since DNA analysis techniques have come out, this viewpoint is looking increasingly crazy.

[Shearergol 0]

 

There is no document in the world which proves where Man came from. Evolution doesn't even come close to explaining where Man even came from

 

Even if it doesn't prove where he came from, only that we know we evolved over a massive period of time to the species we are now, we certainly know we didn't spring forth from gods finger (or whatever!) and then get women from losing a spare rib!

 

So leaving aside the theory of evolution, as has been said on here there is more than enough evidence of how long there has been life on earth and the like. So people can quite easilly dismiss anything from Genesis (especially the Phil Colins years)

 

Evolved from what, originally?

[Papa Lazaru 0]

 

Yes, it does. With modern DNA analysis techniques you can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. The details might not be filled in but that's about it.

 

Do you have a problem accepting humans have no special place in the world (in a biological sense), and are in fact just animals? Plenty of christians do, that's why they hate evolution so much I suspect.

 

That is one of the things that bothers alot of people, that we are animals (albeit far more evolved intellectually and emotionally) like any other and not special.

 

Also alot of them really don't want to hear they share 99% of their DNA with bonobos (sp?) as that means they are 1% off being a chimp!