Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 A superb documentary on Channel 4, where Richard Dawkins bravely and squarely suggested that virtually all the world's problems are brought about by religion, or more importantly in people having Faith rather than using their critical faculties. He was preaching to the converted in my case, as I have believed this now for nearly 20 years after I finally rejected the concept of God, after having been bought up a catholic. Anyway, it was a very interesting program, with some scary interviews and facts. For instance, in the USA, supposedly one of the most highly developed countries on the planet, some 45% of people are creationists and believe, despite overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary, that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. In some states in the US you are now descriminated against for being an atheist, with severely limited job prospects for instance. On the flip side, there are obviously some very extreme islamic states. However, I agree with Dawkins when he says that the fight between christianity and islam (which is now real in a literal sense) is not a fight of good versus evil, but rather evil versus evil. Also he points out that Religion is fundamentally incompatible with Science, as one triumphs Faith, whereas the other requires skepticism. To pretend the two can live side by side is naive at best - another point I agree with. Looking forward to next weeks episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Nah, ER was on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I was tempted to watch it but didn't as I think a lot of these type of documentaries are quite biased in favour of the maker's point of view eg how a LM documentary about Souness would look like. I am increasingly worried that religion is just the root of all the world's problems. 'bout time we started worshipping the sun again imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 I was tempted to watch it but didn't as I think a lot of these type of documentaries are quite biased in favour of the maker's point of view eg how a LM documentary about Souness would look like. I am increasingly worried that religion is just the root of all the world's problems. 'bout time we started worshipping the sun again imo. 77055[/snapback] So you don't watch any documentaries because they might be biased? Odd. I guess you could argue this was biased in favour of science and atheism, but if you are intelligent enough to have your own point of view, where's the problem? In contrast, I saw about 5 minutes of celebrity BB, which is no doubt getting millions of viewers. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I was tempted to watch it but didn't as I think a lot of these type of documentaries are quite biased in favour of the maker's point of view eg how a LM documentary about Souness would look like. I am increasingly worried that religion is just the root of all the world's problems. 'bout time we started worshipping the sun again imo. 77055[/snapback] I meant to watch it after I saw the trailer which for me summed it up perfectly "Its easy for evil people to do evil deeds and good people to do good deeds but for good people to do evil deeds takes religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Wish I'd seen it after my boss mentioned it and "accused" me of writing it I'll look out for a repeat or download opportunity. Strangely using the bible, the classic misquote is "money is the root of all evil" which misses out "love of" at the start. I don't think religion is the root of all evil - its just the excuse. Recently I've found myself getting more frustrated at the irrationality of so called intelligent people spouting creationism etc. Its got to the stage where I think if people reject science so much then science should reject them - that ungodly concept of medicine comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) I was tempted to watch it but didn't as I think a lot of these type of documentaries are quite biased in favour of the maker's point of view eg how a LM documentary about Souness would look like. I am increasingly worried that religion is just the root of all the world's problems. 'bout time we started worshipping the sun again imo. 77055[/snapback] So you don't watch any documentaries because they might be biased? Odd. I guess you could argue this was biased in favour of science and atheism, but if you are intelligent enough to have your own point of view, where's the problem? In contrast, I saw about 5 minutes of celebrity BB, which is no doubt getting millions of viewers. *sigh* 77056[/snapback] Odd???? No. I watch stacks of documentaries which inform us of interesting subjects without giving a quite obvious slant on the maker's perspective. I thought, rightly or wrongly, that this was just going to be someone who has decided that religion 'IS the route of all evils and will prove it'. That is the reason I didn't watch it. And, contrary to popular belief, I do have enough intelligence to form my own opinion on a subject. EDIT: and I can say in all truthfulness that I have not watched one minute of this Big Brother stuff. Edited January 10, 2006 by snakehips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 I was tempted to watch it but didn't as I think a lot of these type of documentaries are quite biased in favour of the maker's point of view eg how a LM documentary about Souness would look like. I am increasingly worried that religion is just the root of all the world's problems. 'bout time we started worshipping the sun again imo. 77055[/snapback] So you don't watch any documentaries because they might be biased? Odd. I guess you could argue this was biased in favour of science and atheism, but if you are intelligent enough to have your own point of view, where's the problem? In contrast, I saw about 5 minutes of celebrity BB, which is no doubt getting millions of viewers. *sigh* 77056[/snapback] Odd???? No. I watch stacks of documentaries which inform us of interesting subjects without giving a quite obvious slant on the maker's perspective. I thought, rightly or wrongly, that this was just going to be someone who has decided that religion 'IS the route of all evils and will prove it'. That is the reason I didn't watch it. And, contrary to popular belief, I do have enough intelligence to form my own opinion on a subject. EDIT: and I can say in all truthfulness that I have not watched one minute of this Big Brother stuff. 77065[/snapback] Touchy. Dawkin's is a man of strong views so if you know anything about him you will know what you're getting. Having said that though, if people want to disagree with him, I'd like them to argue rationally why he is wrong. This was kind of what I was hoping for when I started this thread. Come on then. Who here believes in God (and I mean in an orthodox creator sense, not some kind of wooly spiritual force sense)? Justify your beliefs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Caught the tale end of it. Just for the recoerd I've believed religion is the root of all evil since i met wor lass (10 years ago), after seeing the way her strict Catholic father would force her younger sister to go to church even though she had not interest or belief in it and would cry not to go, quite frankly boiled my piss. Smack has got to be up there somewhere along side religion, loads of followers, truly committed as well after their first service. Edited January 10, 2006 by Wacky Jnr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dawkin's is a man of strong views so if you know anything about him you will know what you're getting. Having said that though, if people want to disagree with him, I'd like them to argue rationally why he is wrong. This was kind of what I was hoping for when I started this thread. Come on then. Who here believes in God (and I mean in an orthodox creator sense, not some kind of wooly spiritual force sense)? Justify your beliefs! 77069[/snapback] At least he knows if he's threatened with the wrath of God (and not one of his minions) then he's okay On your question I re-read A Brief History of Time recently and it made more sense second time around. Also my "annoyance" at his overuse of the word "God" last time was dampened a lot and I found myself finding the suggestion that the universe deliberately "lends" itself towards intelligent life (in our case) quite intriuging. I obvious still think Mount Olympos/Grey haired old men who actually control this world concepts are nonsense and I'm not joining the priesthood tomorrow but I think the concept of a universal creator is not one I'd dismiss so readily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dawkin's is a man of strong views so if you know anything about him you will know what you're getting. Having said that though, if people want to disagree with him, I'd like them to argue rationally why he is wrong. This was kind of what I was hoping for when I started this thread. Come on then. Who here believes in God (and I mean in an orthodox creator sense, not some kind of wooly spiritual force sense)? Justify your beliefs! 77069[/snapback] At least he knows if he's threatened with the wrath of God (and not one of his minions) then he's okay On your question I re-read A Brief History of Time recently and it made more sense second time around. Also my "annoyance" at his overuse of the word "God" last time was dampened a lot and I found myself finding the suggestion that the universe deliberately "lends" itself towards intelligent life (in our case) quite intriuging. I obvious still think Mount Olympos/Grey haired old men who actually control this world concepts are nonsense and I'm not joining the priesthood tomorrow but I think the concept of a universal creator is not one I'd dismiss so readily. 77078[/snapback] Are you mixing up Dawkins with Hawkins here NJS? Dawkin's books include the Selfish Gene, the Blind Watch Maker, and Climbing Mount Improbable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 While I accpet the possibility of there being a God, I've never been able to get a reasonable answer to the question of why a supposedly compassionate, loving entity (as portrayed) allows a world in which so much human suffering takes place to exist. Especially when a lot of it stems from so-called acts of God like drought, earthquakes and the tsunami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themags 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 anyone know any torrents for this, i missed most of it last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Are you mixing up Dawkins with Hawkins here NJS? Dawkin's books include the Selfish Gene, the Blind Watch Maker, and Climbing Mount Improbable. 77081[/snapback] Nah - I just assumed everyone would know who wrote A Brief History of Time I've just started re-reading An Ancestors Tale - don't know if its my age but I find non-fiction isn't sticking to my brain immediately these days - I've already overcome one of my doubts from the first time which was only around 5 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 While I accpet the possibility of there being a God, I've never been able to get a reasonable answer to the question of why a supposedly compassionate, loving entity (as portrayed) allows a world in which so much human suffering takes place to exist. Especially when a lot of it stems from so-called acts of God like drought, earthquakes and the tsunami. 77082[/snapback] Dis anyone see that program, "After the tsunami". I missed it, but did see the trailer. Basically the makers were questioning how anyone could believe in God after such a catastrophe. The people interviewed (all devout muslims/christians I think) were saying stuff like "He's doing it to test us", or "He's doing it because we are evil", or most scary of all "He did it because he loves us". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dis anyone see that program, "After the tsunami". I missed it, but did see the trailer. Basically the makers were questioning how anyone could believe in God after such a catastrophe. The people interviewed (all devout muslims/christians I think) were saying stuff like "He's doing it to test us", or "He's doing it because we are evil", or most scary of all "He did it because he loves us". 77088[/snapback] I couldn't watch it - I knew I would get too angry - especially this test/punishment concept - God as a sort of Santa Claus/Bogeymen type figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 While I accpet the possibility of there being a God, I've never been able to get a reasonable answer to the question of why a supposedly compassionate, loving entity (as portrayed) allows a world in which so much human suffering takes place to exist. Especially when a lot of it stems from so-called acts of God like drought, earthquakes and the tsunami. 77082[/snapback] Dis anyone see that program, "After the tsunami". I missed it, but did see the trailer. Basically the makers were questioning how anyone could believe in God after such a catastrophe. The people interviewed (all devout muslims/christians I think) were saying stuff like "He's doing it to test us", or "He's doing it because we are evil", or most scary of all "He did it because he loves us". 77088[/snapback] God moves in mysterious ways Another one I remember from RE is me asking why Jesus died on the cross to save us all. I still don't understand that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Good people do evil things - too fucking right, I've just had a rancid shite at work an didn't flush! That's bound to test the faith of whoever walks into that cubicle after me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I got a weeks detention and placed in the bottom set in RE for questioning the existence of God and hinting that Mary Magdalene wasn't just washing Jesus's feet. The New Testemant might be based on a living person with a slight over dramatising of events, but the Old Testemant is complete and utter bollocks imo. On the basis of it Religion is mental, people rage wars on each other and kill because a fictional book may or may not have told them to. Believe in what you want to believe in, but a lot of these fuckers make life people's lives a misery on the basis they reckon they know best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 So basically you got detention for daring to have a differing view to what your teacher did? And I thought we lived in a free country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I got a weeks detention and placed in the bottom set in RE for questioning the existence of God and hinting that Mary Magdalene wasn't just washing Jesus's feet. The New Testemant might be based on a living person with a slight over dramatising of events, but the Old Testemant is complete and utter bollocks imo. On the basis of it Religion is mental, people rage wars on each other and kill because a fictional book may or may not have told them to. Believe in what you want to believe in, but a lot of these fuckers make life people's lives a misery on the basis they reckon they know best. 77102[/snapback] You had sets for RE? Was top set for Christians and the bottom set for Islamic fundamentalists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 So basically you got detention for daring to have a differing view to what your teacher did? And I thought we lived in a free country? 77103[/snapback] I went to the same school as SLP, over 10 years earlier. If he'd said that when I was there he would have been expelled, after being caned. I'm not joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckypierre 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 While I accpet the possibility of there being a God, I've never been able to get a reasonable answer to the question of why a supposedly compassionate, loving entity (as portrayed) allows a world in which so much human suffering takes place to exist. Especially when a lot of it stems from so-called acts of God like drought, earthquakes and the tsunami. 77082[/snapback] he/she/it isnt always compassionate though alien intervention explains the whole happy god/vengeful god bollocks so much better than one omnipotent being ..not that Im saying thats true though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags 1 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I got a weeks detention and placed in the bottom set in RE for questioning the existence of God and hinting that Mary Magdalene wasn't just washing Jesus's feet. The New Testemant might be based on a living person with a slight over dramatising of events, but the Old Testemant is complete and utter bollocks imo. On the basis of it Religion is mental, people rage wars on each other and kill because a fictional book may or may not have told them to. Believe in what you want to believe in, but a lot of these fuckers make life people's lives a misery on the basis they reckon they know best. 77102[/snapback] The Bible- officially the best selling work of fiction. I love it when I get the mormons and jehovas at my door being that I am a reformed catholic schoolgirl, but also one of those people who have a belief(not religion) that guides my conscience. Do I believe the Bible is the word of God? On a good day yes, but with 2000 years of man's interpretation ascribed to it. On a bad day the Bible was written by a bunch of middle east and arabic rejects who ate one too many hallucinogenic weeds and the Bible is nothing more than an archaic bad acid trip. And you can't tell me that the Catholic church in all it's 'glory' hasn't changed interpretations and wordings in the bible for their own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckypierre 0 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 cant remember the exact figure but comparing the two oldest (distinct) copies of the christian bible theres something like 60000* differences *in no way an accurate figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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