60% of our revenue from TV rights

[BigWalrus 0]

The question of financial meltdown only ever rose after Souness spunked £50m in 16 months. My defence of FFS and his policies ends with the sacking of SBR.

 

How can you defend the idea of the shareholders (Shepherd and Hall and family) taking out £30m+ in dividends throughout that entire period? The club was losing money yet they were still milking the club of all its cash. In my mind, it's completely indefensible.

[BigWalrus 0]

So if those figures are correct, in 5 of those 8 years we broke even, while coming 3rd, 4th and 5th.

 

Oh that's alright then. The net outflow of £28m over the three years is acceptable as we broke even in 2003 and 2004. Shepherd calls himself a fan. In reality, his tenure was akin to going round to his mam's house with a box of chocolates for her birthday, only to eat all the chocolates himself and take all the cash out of her piggy bank.

[McFaul 35]

Oh that's alright then. The net outflow of £28m over the three years is acceptable as we broke even in 2003 and 2004. Shepherd calls himself a fan. In reality, his tenure was akin to going round to his mam's house with a box of chocolates for her birthday, only to eat all the chocolates himself and take all the cash out of her piggy bank.

At the end of the day, all the average Newcastle fan wants is an ambitious group of people backing them behind the scenes. Newcastle could've won the league in 2002, and in 2003. We had Champions League football, and 20 odd million quid is neither hear nor there for a big football club. The fact is FFS was wise enough to get good sponsorship deals for the time, commercially we were in another world to where we are now, we were told as supporters that we'd be challenging for CL spaces, not only that but they delivered their promises. There was a great mood about the club, Shepherd told the world we were Newcastle United, we're a big club and everybody else can fuck off! I loved it. We were a big club. Commercially we are 1/3rd the club we were then. We have an owner who gets his puppet Llambias and his other fucking puppet Pardew to tell everybody concerned, we're basically just a nobody club in North East England who have no right to even be competing with Tottenham let alone Manchester United. If you can't see which approach was better that's up to you. I know who I'd prefer.

Edited January 28, 2013 by McFaul

[McFaul 35]

Luque and Owen were a huge chunk of that, half really, of which he wanted neither in fairness, that was FFS and co

 

Shepherd and Hall as mentioned above brought the big names in but they put us in a financial mess because of it, yet as pointed out between the insane salaries they took as directors and the dividends and shares, they made themselves a fortune even when we were turning a loss.

I'd be staggered if a football manager turned round and said, no I don't want England's golden boy, top goalscorer, who's just had a reasonably successful season with Real Madrid. Shepherd was stupid regarding Luque though, it was idiotic in the extreme to pay the extra £4m. If only we had Graham Carr then.

[McFaul 35]

Daft, not that i likely either set of owners at all but "going for glory" putting yourself so far into financial meltdown that one blip could well mean the end of the club is just fucking stupid.

do you honestly thing if FFS and co weren't able to make themselves millions off the back of the club they'd still have been looking at bringing in some striker at 15m and 90k a week? would they fuck.

 

 

Everyone loves being successful and the best/biggest at what they do, but what shepherd was doing esp around the time of souness was just mental, simply mental.

Where did I say it wasn't, refer to my sentence, my defence of Shepherd ends chronologically with the appointment of Souness.

[BigWalrus 0]

Various points

 

1. At the end of the day, all the average Newcastle fan wants is an ambitious group of people backing them behind the scenes.

Shepherd and Hall contributed £0 to NUFC. That's no backing at all.

 

2. Newcastle could've won the league in 2002, and in 2003. We had Champions League football, and 20 odd million quid is neither hear nor there for a big football club.

£20m is a hell of a lot when you're haemorrhaging cash and surviving on borrowing even more from the bank to get by.

 

3. The fact is FFS was wise enough to get good sponsorship deals for the time, commercially we were in another world to where we are now, we were told as supporters that we'd be challenging for CL spaces, not only that but they delivered their promises.

And where did this extra sponsorship money go? Into the pockets of Sherpherd and Hall. It had no benefit to the club whatsoever.

 

4. There was a great mood about the club, Shepherd told the world we were Newcastle United, we're a big club and everybody else can fuck off! I loved it. We were a big club. Commercially we are 1/3rd the club we were then.

Your opinion, but can't be proven.

 

5. We have an owner who gets his puppet Llambias and his other fucking puppet Pardew to tell everybody concerned, we're basically just a nobody club in North East England who have no right to even be competing with Tottenham let alone Manchester United.

Show me the quotes. You asked for figures and they were delivered. Show me the quotes.

[McFaul 35]

Shepherd and Hall contributed £0 to NUFC. That's no backing at all.

 

I'm sure you're aware that if Hall hadn't have invested in the club in the first place, we'd have more likely went in to Division 3 and went bankrupt in the process. Hall deserved whatever he got out of the club, even though I never personally liked him.

 

£20m is a hell of a lot when you're haemorrhaging cash and surviving on borrowing even more from the bank to get by.

 

For an £100m annual turnover business over 5 years it's not that as bad as you're making out.

 

Your opinion, but can't be proven.

 

How can it not be proven? I repeat (forget about expenditure) our income was higher 10-12 years ago than it is now. The TV deal then was worth £20m, it's worth nearly £60m now, yet we make less money today.

 

 

Show me the quotes. You asked for figures and they were delivered. Show me the quotes

 

You must be winding me up? There must be 100 quotes from all concerned about how we must understand what our station is. They even used it as part of their sales pitch in calling it the SDA ffs.

[Kid Dynamite 6961]

We signed Woodgate in 2003 as well, not cheaply neither.

 

And then sold him at a £4.5mil profit a year later. Who does that sound like?

[McFaul 35]

And then sold him at a £4.5mil profit a year later. Who does that sound like?

Someone who knew he was crocked?

[BigWalrus 0]

Again, the point is being missed that turnover just isn't important. We weren't cash rich. We had player contracts in place that committed us to paying out the vast majority of that turnover in wages. We were spending way beyond our means, and continued losses for a conmpany with no cash spells disaster.

 

The Hall I'm referring to is Douglas Hall, not SJH. SJH had a very limited role in the period you're on about. SJH had some huge flaws, but that's for another time.

[PaddockLad 16991]

Been said on here before but would us still paying much the same prices generally (and in some cases a lot less) for our season tickets in 2013 as we were in 2003 have a lot to do with the decreased income?...there again its a different world now, "austerity" etc...if they put prices up to the level of Spurs we'd maybe only be getting 35k in through the door,

[Christmas Tree 4669]

These Internet arguments always get polar almost asking for sides to be taken.

 

We had some great times as fans under Shepherd but he didn't half feather his nest while doing it and given what we know now, I dread to think where we would be if someone with very deep pockets hadn't rode up in 2007.

 

It certainly hasn't been no bed of roses under Ashley but you can't help but feel that at least there is a plan at work.

 

It would also be unfair to say that we haven't had some good times under Ashley. While I wouldn't want to go through it again, the promotion season felt like a breath if fresh air, as did last season.

 

Assuming we avoid relegation, I think next summer will be the defining one in Ashley's reign. It will indicate (to me at least), whether it is simply all about staying on the prem or genuinely trying to be a regular top seven team.

 

And just to add to PL's season ticket price point. In 2022, we will still not be generating any more income through the turnstiles. It's up to you whether you consider that good or bad.

[ewerk 30161]

Been said on here before but would us still paying much the same prices generally (and in some cases a lot less) for our season tickets in 2013 as we were in 2003 have a lot to do with the decreased income?...there again its a different world now, "austerity" etc...if they put prices up to the level of Spurs we'd maybe only be getting 35k in through the door,

 

Aye, I thought about that. The club will try and spin it as doing something for the fans but even at the prices that are being charged we aren't selling out most games.

[aimaad22 4082]

No signing thus far this week. Ashley out!

 

I think its obvious to most of us the reason for the spending in this window is the fact that Ashely and Co have finally realised relegation is a real possibility and they are going to suffer serious losses if it does happen. Nevertheless we have signed some players with genuine quality, those that can take us to the next level. So I'll give the management credit where its due and hope they have learnt from their mistakes. Its upto Pardew now to salvage this season. No more excuses.

Edited January 28, 2013 by aimaad22

[Dr Gloom 21757]

Ah, the classic Shepherd v Ashley debate. Leazesmag would indeed be having a field day with this this one.

 

Shepherd was a moron. And without a doubt the club is now on a sounder financial footing. But as a fan, you'd be daft to say you prefer life under Ashley. First of Ashley's a cunt - some of his actions are indefensible - stadium naming rights, treatment of keegan etc.

 

Plus we haven't come close to SBR's teams in Ashley's tenure. For all of Shepherd's flaws - mis-managing the finances, sacking managers at ridiculous points (just after the transfer window had shut), having faith in the likes of Souness, his massive gob etc etc - at least you had the sense that he was a supporter of the club and wanted us to be competing at the top.

 

With Ashley I'm not sure he really gives a shit as long as we stay in the top flight. We've all been banging on about how good this transfer window has been but that's a result of how low our expectations have become. We should be spending 11m net or whatever it is every transfer window. We're Nufc ffs and we're supposed to be owned by a billionaire. If he cared, he'd invest more of his own cash. The only reason he's done it now is because he's shiting himself about the financial costs of relegation - and rightly so. We could be fucked if we go down this time.

[Kid Dynamite 6961]

I think the team last year is on a par with any team under SBR. The league was a 2 horse race the years we finished 3rd and 4th. Finishing 5th with the amount of money that has since poured into Man City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea is as big as an achievement IMO. We still had plenty of shite in and out of the team back then too, Bramble, Acuna, Gavilan, Griffin, Cort, Cordone etc.

Edited January 28, 2013 by TheRollingStones

[BigWalrus 0]

Ah, the classic Shepherd v Ashley debate. Leazesmag would indeed be having a field day with this this one.

 

Shepherd was a moron. And without a doubt the club is now on a sounder financial footing. But as a fan, you'd be daft to say you prefer life under Ashley. First of Ashley's a cunt - some of his actions are indefensible - stadium naming rights, treatment of keegan etc.

 

Plus we haven't come close to SBR's teams in Ashley's tenure. For all of Shepherd's flaws - mis-managing the finances, sacking managers at ridiculous points (just after the transfer window had shut), having faith in the likes of Souness, his massive gob etc etc - at least you had the sense that he was a supporter of the club and wanted us to be competing at the top.

 

With Ashley I'm not sure he really gives a shit as long as we stay in the top flight. We've all been banging on about how good this transfer window has been but that's a result of how low our expectations have become. We should be spending 11m net or whatever it is every transfer window. We're Nufc ffs and we're supposed to be owned by a billionaire. If he cared, he'd invest more of his own cash. The only reason he's done it now is because he's shiting himself about the financial costs of relegation - and rightly so. We could be fucked if we go down this time.

 

Shepherd gets a plus point for the sense that he is a fan, despite investing not a single penny of his own money in the club. He may not be rich by Ashley's standards but he was far from a pauper.

 

Ashley on the other hand gets it in the neck because he has only pumped in £50m of his own cash (about 8% of his entire net worth at the time).

 

For the Ashley stadium naming rights fiasco you have the Shepherd and Hall NOTW expose.

 

Nobody ever likes their owners. They're all pathological cunts.

 

Under Shepherd it felt like going on a 5 star holiday paid for on credit card, knowing at some point you were going to have to pay the bills and have a shit life for a few years. That realisation came when we signed Lee Bowyer.

[S-I-S-S-O-K-O 0]

I think the team last year is on a par with any team under SBR. The league was a 2 horse race the years we finished 3rd and 4th. Finishing 5th with the amount of money that has since poured into Man City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea is as big as an achievement IMO. We still had plenty of shite in and out of the team back then too, Bramble, Acuna, Gavilan, Griffin, Cort, Cordone etc.

 

Unfair on Acuna that. He never let us down and I'm sure Viera was once quoted saying he was his toughest opponent one season.

[mustyelbow 0]

Unfair on Acuna that. He never let us down and I'm sure Viera was once quoted saying he was his toughest opponent one season.

 

acuna was a hardworking player and IMO he done the business in midfield

[Happy Face 29]

http://www.joinmust....read.php?t=9224

 

Look how far we were above Tottenham it's only 10 years ago.

 

Mike Ashley has been a disaster for NUFC. You correctly point out that our TV revenue has went up £40m in 10 years, yet the turnover has went down. What it shows is commercially the club should be making £140m turnover every season, we're nearly £50m down on that. He's running the club like Butlins, but not the one at Skegness, the one at Ayr. Disgraceful man. The biggest evil in the clubs 121 year history.

 

It's all well and good to cherry pick the 03/04 season (where we were in the Champions league and Spurs weren't in any European competition) to highlight how far ahead we were at one point...but that ground was ceded to them long before Ashley arrived. To blame him for them making up that ground is wrong.

 

 

Compare the turnovers of the 2 clubs in the years leading up to and immediately following the buyout. Ashley is only resp[onsible for the last season in the chart above. I don't think he did much wrong in year one either. He backed Allardyce, it didn't work so he brought in Keegan for the end of the season.

 

Spurs had already taken a massive leap ahead of us before Ashley arrived though and were eating up that champions league money we had been relying on to bloat turnover and pay for big money signings.

 

You know I agree almost entirely with you about Ashley, but I don't think you need put on rose tinted specs when looking at the disaster of 2004-2007, and the lack of ideas that the incumbent board had to sort it out.

 

That's why Hall cut his losses, and that's why Shepherd hasn't invested elsewhere. It had gone from a millionaires game to a billionaires.

[Happy Face 29]

I don't know much about Lord Westwood, but you hear OC's refer to him as the pirate. This bloke is worse than a pirate. He's like one of those leaches on Stand By Me, his crack when he bought the club was he bought it to "have some fun". Have some fun being £45m in the transfer black over 5 and a half years.

 

He's less than £20m up on transfers all told now.

[OTF 7214]

 

 

He's less than £20m up on transfers all told now.

 

Is that thread up to date?

[Happy Face 29]

http://www.joinmust....read.php?t=9224

 

Look how far we were above Tottenham it's only 10 years ago.

 

Mike Ashley has been a disaster for NUFC. You correctly point out that our TV revenue has went up £40m in 10 years, yet the turnover has went down. What it shows is commercially the club should be making £140m turnover every season, we're nearly £50m down on that. He's running the club like Butlins, but not the one at Skegness, the one at Ayr. Disgraceful man. The biggest evil in the clubs 121 year history.

 

Should also add you're mixing £s and Euros. The Delloite lists are always in Euros.

 

In £s the highest we ever went pre-Ashley was £96m

 

 

In that year, with champions league, we made over £40m from TV...last year, without any european money, it was just over £50m. But turnover remained about that £90m mark.

 

Ashley has dropped about £15m from our other income on those numbers.

[Happy Face 29]

Is that thread up to date?

 

Not sure if I hoyed Sissoko in. I'll do it now

[KeithJ 0]

Fat Freddy the Fuck ups...

 

Sir Bobby Robson actually wrote a bit in his book about Freddy. Let us remember SBR was one of the most experienced men of football. He had brought through the worlds best players.

 

Transfer dealings according to Bobby in his book with Freddy..

 

Gary Speed - Bobby couldn't get Viana in his team and sanctioned him to be loaned back out to the Portuguese League to gain first team opportunities he then gets a call from Freddy saying Gary wants to say goodbye. SBR tried to keep him but failed which led to the next part...

Butt Vrs Carrick - SBR had told Freddy to get Carrick, Freddy turned him down for £3mil and said he would be available for £500k in January. Spurs picked up the bill and sold him later for £16mil. We got Butt, a player later loaned to Brum for being on the Man Utd blues.

Sell Woodgate, Buy Rooney - Freddy told Bobby if he accepted the £12 mil for Woodgate they were going to sign Wayne Rooney, Bobby agreed and ..... no Wayne Rooney.

 

Bobby Robson was dismissed on the 30th of August 2004 for a poor start to the season, Freddy actually PAID to bring Souness to Newcastle United from a Blackburn team who were struggling. A manager who had famously tackled Dwight Yorke on the training pitch.

 

Signings include Boumsong, Amdy Faye, Luque, Owen.

 

The Ashley era for the first few years has been nothing short of a shambles.

 

Signings Smith, Geremi, Cacapa, too many to list....

 

Now take in to consideration from Ashley that we begin to see the learning curve take effect from when we got relegated.

 

Signings after learning curve Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Ba, Cisse, Tiote, Santon, etc. I even look at the other signings we made this month and think we are doing good. The players we are getting are hungry, they want to be here. We have dodged a few bullets like Gervinho.

 

My opinion :- Freddy was like one of those stunning blondes tarted up in her best but has a part time job in boots. She has maxed out her credit card and is hopeful of money coming in from a sugar daddy who finds her attractive to pay her bills.

 

Ashley - a ruthless business man who has a plan. How can people say he has no ambition when we finished 5th? Our second season back after relegation. After seeing the troubles of Portsmouth, Rangers, Leeds, Etc. I would prefer to know we are going to have a club in 10 years rather than risking it.

 

Ps:- by today's standards if share holders had a majority shareholding in NUFC back then, Freddy and the halls wouldn't be on the board under the corporate governance code.