Europe --- In or Out

[Renton 21592]

I think that's easy to say when your not affected by it. There's a lot of places that over 10 years have had a massive influx of immigrants that has changed the look and feel of their towns / services greatly.

 

There was a town on Newsnight last night in Lincolnshire (Boston ?) that's population has increased by 11% due to migrants in the last 10 years. They did a vox pop in the high street where the immigrants were saying they faced no abuse and the locals were saying "they're al welcome here but we just can't take any more".

 

Now I appreciate that's not replicated everywhere, but it's definitely a legitimate concern in a lot of communities.

I acknowledged that it was a concern for some communities. But explain Sunderland then, virtually zero immigration. There it is clearly right wing xenophobia stoking the flames of poverty and disenfranchisement. That, and thick Mackem bastards.

[Rayvin 5217]

Hard to disagree with Renton on that CT, Sunderland is one of the most British born cities in the country. Largely cos no one wants to live there like, but for them, xenophobia must play a large part.

 

In fact, maybe if they'd had more immigrants, and therefore less fear of the unknown, they would have been more likely to vote Remain.

[trophyshy 7083]

They do not make outsiders feel welcome tbf. I recall when I was living there the house at the end of the street was full of refugees from the middle east and the house was set on fire once (someone died iirc) and regularly had its windows put through. Also they really hated students even though that was one of the few things bringing any money into the place. The best outcome of Brexit would be Nissan to pull out of Sunderland and then they have to consume each other to survive. Blue pop and Uncle Mick's cock for tea lads.

[Alex 35064]

Not the case Alex, there was only ourselves, Sweden and Ireland that opened the doors, all the rest had transitional controls in place.

 

There's a very good piece on it here.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story

It would've only been temporary though

[Billy Whitehurst 895]

Do you think major cities would be able to run basic services and deliver construction projects without them? Ex stock broker Farage has lead people rather up the garden path on this I feel. His old mates in the city would struggle a bit without them too...

London would be fucked without them, people can see that the benefits of immigration far outweigh the costs. That's why London overwhelmingly voted remain. On the whole, the highest remain votes tended to be in the areas of highest net migration and the leave vote was higher where immigration was lowest.

 

Given this, you have to ask how people in these leave areas developed such strong concerns about immigration, as it certainly doesn't appear to be from first hand experience.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

I acknowledged that it was a concern for some communities. But explain Sunderland then, virtually zero immigration. There it is clearly right wing xenophobia stoking the flames of poverty and disenfranchisement. That, and thick Mackem bastards.

 

imagine fleeing war in syria, travelling the continent to reach the promised land and ending up in wearside

[trophyshy 7083]

 

imagine fleeing war in syria, travelling the continent to reach the promised land and ending up in wearside

 

and then being burned alive for good measure.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I'll try and ask a different way, how do you think the economy would look without the influx of immigrant labour that won the referendum for the Brexit campaign?

Hard to say. We obviously need immigration of different skills and quantities depending on the country's needs. It's about having the right mix. Certainly after the eastern bloc came on board we had a tidal wave that Labour wasn't expecting and other EU countries protected themselves from. Wages were driven down and zero hour contracts / shitty agency jobs grew because there was a never ending stream of cheap labour.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

we need low skilled workers as well as high skilled workers. london would be on its knees without immigration

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I acknowledged that it was a concern for some communities. But explain Sunderland then, virtually zero immigration. There it is clearly right wing xenophobia stoking the flames of poverty and disenfranchisement. That, and thick Mackem bastards.

I don't disagree there's a lot of thickos who voted leave. My point is that if it doesn't effect your everyday circumstances, it's hard to know how these genuine communities feel.

 

It's not something that really effects me ( except it's fairly clear to anyone who gets a taxi up here, things have changed) but a quick Google at census data says this.

 

In 2011, the total usual resident population of the North East stood at 2,596,886. About 5% of those residents (128,573) were born outside of the UK. This represents an increase of 74% in the non-UK born population of the region since 2001

 

It just seems common sense to manage it. Every other EU country bar us and two others, saw the problem coming.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

It would've only been temporary though

7 years.

 

The whole point of was to allow freedom of movement to take place gradually. The U.K. Dismissing this protection literally opened the flood gates.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

imagine fleeing war in syria, travelling the continent to reach the promised land and ending up in wearside

[Christmas Tree 4725]

we need low skilled workers as well as high skilled workers. london would be on its knees without immigration

But Londons almost a country within a country.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

meanwhile, sterling continues with its dead cat bounce. good luck with your holidays this year everyone!

 

[NJS 4378]

7 years.

 

The whole point of was to allow freedom of movement to take place gradually. The U.K. Dismissing this protection literally opened the flood gates.

Well the tories didn't try to to "protect" against the Romanians etc and there wasn't really a flood - probably because the UK was less attractive by then.

 

I think floodgates is an exaggeration anyway.

[PaddockLad 17244]

Hard to say. We obviously need immigration of different skills and quantities depending on the country's needs. It's about having the right mix. Certainly after the eastern bloc came on board we had a tidal wave that Labour wasn't expecting and other EU countries protected themselves from. Wages were driven down and zero hour contracts / shitty agency jobs grew because there was a never ending stream of cheap labour.

The very sort of jobs you were claiming were part of a Tory success story at some point in the last 7 days? The likes of Mike Ashley needs these people. The fellah who was all for Brexit and invited Nigel and his bus in to speak to the workers at his factory where 50% of them were Polish he needs them too. You're fond of saying that trade won't stop, Europe won't stop selling to us, I think the same goes for labour too, I think all this talk of "taking back control" can't be delivered. You've been sold a pup iyam.

[Renton 21592]

I don't disagree there's a lot of thickos who voted leave. My point is that if it doesn't effect your everyday circumstances, it's hard to know how these genuine communities feel.

 

It's not something that really effects me ( except it's fairly clear to anyone who gets a taxi up here, things have changed) but a quick Google at census data says this.

 

In 2011, the total usual resident population of the North East stood at 2,596,886. About 5% of those residents (128,573) were born outside of the UK. This represents an increase of 74% in the non-UK born population of the region since 2001

 

It just seems common sense to manage it. Every other EU country bar us and two others, saw the problem coming.

Why are you quoting figures for the NE as a whole? The area with the most EU immigration, Newcastle, narrowly voted Remain. The area with the least, Sunderland, massively voted out. Therefore it had little to do with the effect of immigration in this region. Agree?

 

There's a BBC article on Sunderland's Brexit today if you want to look it up. Many people cite immigration as their motive, bit there's literally no evidence anyone in the city is affected by it, unless you happen to be an unemployed car washer. What's more, not a single person could name anything good that will result from Brexit. Couple this with the serious concerns over Nissan, and removal of EU regional investment into the city, then it's an utterly bewildering vote. In reality, it's a vote that has little to do with the EU.

[Happy Face 29]

In 2011, the total usual resident population of the North East stood at 2,596,886. About 5% of those residents (128,573) were born outside of the UK. This represents an increase of 74% in the non-UK born population of the region since 2001

 

 

So over 10 years that's 5000 immigrants per year to the north east. 0.02 % of the overall population. If a company employs 5000 people, one more would be an immigrant each year.

 

..and most of them are Chinese or Indian anyway and unaffected by any EU freedoms.

 

Well worth fucking the economy to sort that "tidal wave"

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Well the tories didn't try to to "protect" against the Romanians etc and there wasn't really a flood - probably because the UK was less attractive by then.

 

I think floodgates is an exaggeration anyway.

I don't want to get into a stats fight (cos others do it better), but they estimated something like 13,000 a year and were getting 10 times that amount.

 

"Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million"

 

I thinks it pretty much accepted by most of the players during that time that it was a massive cock up.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

You're fond of saying that trade won't stop, Europe won't stop selling to us, I think the same goes for labour too, I think all this talk of "taking back control" can't be delivered. You've been sold a pup iyam.

I disagree but time will tell.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

More than 300 hate crime incidents have been reported to a national online portal since last Thursday - compared to a weekly average of 63.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

 

 

So over 10 years that's 5000 immigrants per year to the north east. 0.02 % of the overall population. If a company employs 5000 people, one more would be an immigrant each year.

 

..and most of them are Chinese or Indian anyway and unaffected by any EU freedoms.

 

Well worth fucking the economy to sort that "tidal wave"

It's textbook - in desperate times, blame Johnny Foreigner.

[PaddockLad 17244]

I don't want to get into a stats fight (cos others do it better), but they estimated something like 13,000 a year and were getting 10 times that amount.

"Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million"

I thinks it pretty much accepted by most of the players during that time that it was a massive cock up.

Wasn't the labour needed then, pre banking crisis?...

[Isegrim 9762]

May also confirmed that under her, Britain will not pull out of the ECHR

Alexander Lukashenko, Nursultan Nazarbaev and the pope are seething.

[Happy Face 29]

Between 1998 and 2010 net emmigration of uk citizens increased 6 fold, a tidal wave of Brits going abroad stealing jobs.