Europe --- In or Out

[Alex 35569]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Prominent Brexiteer Owen Paterson is taking the UK Govt to the European Court of Human Rights over his lobbying inquiry. 

 

The fucking neck on the bloke.

 

Hope he ends up destitute 

[Craig 6700]

If you want an entertaining debate with a Brexiteer, ask them: 
 

Quote

If we rejoined the EU in January, which tangible Brexit benefits would you miss the most? 

 

Then enjoy the pause....

[Craig 6700]

 

[Renton 21981]

22 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

 

Interesting. Huge increase in support for rejoining the EU in the North East (and South West), two of the worst affected areas. Meanwhile support has gone down in my thick as fuck age group.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Renton

[Craig 6700]

10 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Interesting. Huge increase in support for rejoining the EU in the North East (and South West), two of the worst affected areas. Meanwhile support has gone down in my thick as fuck age group.

 

 

 

Yep, the same here. But it's the ONLY demographic where support has decreased. But it is still over 50%

Edited November 24, 2022 by Craig

[Renton 21981]

Also of note in that graph, stubborness is a function of age, and 20% who voted Leave now want to rejoin. WHy Starmer is running scared of the Leave mob is beyond me, I guess he's counting on the fact that remain voters are more forgiving, which is probably true. 

[Rayvin 5294]

Scotland decreasing too, oddly.

[Craig 6700]

33 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Scotland decreasing too, oddly.

 

Might that be as a result of it being a fundamental argument of Sturgeon for the 2nd referendum and the no campaigners going against her? 

That said it's still at 60%

[Renton 21981]

27 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

Might that be as a result of it being a fundamental argument of Sturgeon for the 2nd referendum and the no campaigners going against her? 

That said it's still at 60%

 

Also since it's subgroup analysis I imagine the error bars on this would be pretty large. 

[Craig 6700]

 

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

[Rayvin 5294]

This is absolutely pathetic from the Tories - I mean there's not been a single thing they've done well so it's not surprising, but they can't even deliver what their core vote wants.

 

This is because running a country is based on analysis of evidence and facts, and not populist nonsense. We've been a rare case IMO in that the past few years have really given the right enough rope to fully hang themselves. Full on market liberalism? Fucked. Close the borders to foreigners? Fucked. Economic Competence? Fucked.

 

All the Tories are and ever were is right wing media spin and preying on people's insecurity over their rationality.

[Craig 6700]

Peter Bone proving he's still an utter cunt

 

 

[ewerk 31195]

Laugh all you want. I’d welcome that debate if it was honest and didn’t have Labour cowering behind their benches.

[Craig 6700]

 

[Renton 21981]

There is some horrendous data coming out about our trade with the EU at the moment. Thank fuck we have all these great  deals that Truss negotiated with the rest of the World like, erm, USA, China, India, or erm Japan.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/26/brexit-britain-japan-trade-deal-exports-slump?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[Renton 21981]

Depressing article but worth reading for anyone who thinks we can rejoin the EU or SM in the next 20 years.

 

 

 

[Rayvin 5294]

4 hours ago, Renton said:

Depressing article but worth reading for anyone who thinks we can rejoin the EU or SM in the next 20 years.

 

 

 

 

It's an opinion piece that shares nothing that isn't readily apparent but ignores the positives of rejoining for both sides. He's not a decision maker in this, he's just one man with a view. And honestly that view isn't new. Literally none of it.

 

We'll see what happens as the country becomes evermore enraged at living standards. Moreover we'll see what happens in the EU as the UK does eventually start to get its act together.

[Renton 21981]

6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

It's an opinion piece that shares nothing that isn't readily apparent but ignores the positives of rejoining for both sides. He's not a decision maker in this, he's just one man with a view. And honestly that view isn't new. Literally none of it.

 

We'll see what happens as the country becomes evermore enraged at living standards. Moreover we'll see what happens in the EU as the UK does eventually start to get its act together.

 

I agree, I posted it because its an opinion which tallies with my own. The crucial point though which I think people including on this board also fail to address is why would the EU want us back? They can progress better without us and have taken a lot of our trade/services for themselves. And to top it off we are a shining example to uppity member states life is not better out the block. Like it or not, people from the UK have never felt part of EU in the way continental Europeans have, you can see it framed here also, it's us and them. And the longer we are out, the more this is reinforced. Anyway, decent podcast on the Newsagents yesterday with Blair that touches on this. We really miss his pragmatism.  

[Renton 21981]

Curious to this uptick in UK "expats" coming home on this graph. This will be fucking gammon pensioners who have been thrown out the costas, won't it? More expense to our collapsing NHS and stresses on housing stock. So much winning. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Renton

[RobinRobin 11549]

Don't worry, I'm not coming home to burden the NHS 

[ewerk 31195]

6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

It's an opinion piece that shares nothing that isn't readily apparent but ignores the positives of rejoining for both sides. He's not a decision maker in this, he's just one man with a view. And honestly that view isn't new. Literally none of it.

 

We'll see what happens as the country becomes evermore enraged at living standards. Moreover we'll see what happens in the EU as the UK does eventually start to get its act together.

 

You must agree that that rejoining isn't on the cards for at least a decade? The EU won't risk that and neither party in the UK is brave enough to suggest that. The best we can hope for is significant regulatory alignment with the EU under the next Labour government and eventually membership of the SM and CU and possibly full membership some way further down the road.

[Rayvin 5294]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

 

You must agree that that rejoining isn't on the cards for at least a decade? The EU won't risk that and neither party in the UK is brave enough to suggest that. The best we can hope for is significant regulatory alignment with the EU under the next Labour government and eventually membership of the SM and CU and possibly full membership some way further down the road.

 

On the decade component sure, it took us 5 years to leave and I can't see any quick way of reversing that.

 

What I disagree with is the idea that the EU wouldn't want us back. The Ukraine war and the fact that they've asked us to be part of a joint security committee underscores how important the UK was as a leader in security and defence, something they do not have a ready replacement for. On top of that I still feel that a taking back in member that left is a bigger win than having one on the outside. We won't suffer forever from Brexit, eventually the country will get its act together and start growing again - the longer that goes on, the bigger threat we become to the European project. Far better to have us back inside. Important note here, I'm not saying we wouldn't grow faster inside the EU - we obviously would - but the economy will eventually pivot to whatever will work for a post EU version of the UK. It'll be shit for workers but we will find a way to attract business.

[Toonpack 9925]

15 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

On the decade component sure, it took us 5 years to leave and I can't see any quick way of reversing that.

 

What I disagree with is the idea that the EU wouldn't want us back. The Ukraine war and the fact that they've asked us to be part of a joint security committee underscores how important the UK was as a leader in security and defence, something they do not have a ready replacement for. On top of that I still feel that a taking back in member that left is a bigger win than having one on the outside. We won't suffer forever from Brexit, eventually the country will get its act together and start growing again - the longer that goes on, the bigger threat we become to the European project. Far better to have us back inside. Important note here, I'm not saying we wouldn't grow faster inside the EU - we obviously would - but the economy will eventually pivot to whatever will work for a post EU version of the UK. It'll be shit for workers but we will find a way to attract business.

 

Whilst countries economies will always bottom out and grow again I think the notion that the UK could grow to such an extent to threaten the EU is mad tbh and France's military is also now bigger than ours.

[ewerk 31195]

49 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

On the decade component sure, it took us 5 years to leave and I can't see any quick way of reversing that.

 

What I disagree with is the idea that the EU wouldn't want us back. The Ukraine war and the fact that they've asked us to be part of a joint security committee underscores how important the UK was as a leader in security and defence, something they do not have a ready replacement for. On top of that I still feel that a taking back in member that left is a bigger win than having one on the outside. We won't suffer forever from Brexit, eventually the country will get its act together and start growing again - the longer that goes on, the bigger threat we become to the European project. Far better to have us back inside. Important note here, I'm not saying we wouldn't grow faster inside the EU - we obviously would - but the economy will eventually pivot to whatever will work for a post EU version of the UK. It'll be shit for workers but we will find a way to attract business.

 

The EU will want us back, just not any time soon. They will want to know that the Brexit debate is finished and the Tories aren't going to campaign on taking us out again just to win back power and then have everything back to square one. Which is why I think they'll want us to be members of SM and CU for a while but outside the EU to see how the country reacts.