Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 31195]

15 minutes ago, Renton said:

Look at this man. Can someone explain to me why supporting an obviously failing Brexit is a vote winner? Is it all just fear of the written media? Who the fuck even reads a paper nowadays anyway? And yeah, I know I probably come across as contrary now, but I'm just sick of the bull shit and lies. 

 

 

 

 

The 54% who think that Brexit has gone badly don't necessarily want to reverse it. In fact there's a lot people who voted remain who don't want to reverse it. A large part of Johnson's appeal last time out was just to get Brexit 'over and done with'. Most people are sick of it. Labour will have done their homework on this policy and chose it as the least bad option.

[Renton 21983]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

The 54% who think that Brexit has gone badly don't necessarily want to reverse it. In fact there's a lot people who voted remain who don't want to reverse it. A large part of Johnson's appeal last time out was just to get Brexit 'over and done with'. Most people are sick of it. Labour will have done their homework on this policy and chose it as the least bad option.

 

I don't want to reverse it. But I do want to be in the SM and have FoM. And I believe most people now do. You don't have to make a big deal about it, and I fully accept it take upwards of 10 years. You have to start somewhere though. Oh, and Labour has been getting their strategies wrong for over a decade now. This is an absolute boon for the SNP, which nobody seems to want to talk about. 

[Renton 21983]

I mean. come on, look at the state of this. How are we letting Johnson get away with "getting Brexit done" when he's going to break international law to renege on his own deal? There is so much ammo against the tories its unreal. 

 

 

 

[Gemmill 46024]

 

Don't worry man, Starmer has 7 years to execute the same sort of u-turn you've just managed in a week.

 

[Renton 21983]

Damn I love being right. 

[Craig 6700]

48 minutes ago, Renton said:

Look at this man. Can someone explain to me why supporting an obviously failing Brexit is a vote winner? Is it all just fear of the written media? Who the fuck even reads a paper nowadays anyway? And yeah, I know I probably come across as contrary now, but I'm just sick of the bull shit and lies. 

 

 

 

 

Sadly mate it's demonstrable of the lack of intelligence of many people. All the want to see is "the back of the EU, immigration to be tightly controlled and us getting our country back" Not to mention a blue passport 🙄

These people climbed political walls to change sides to make sure this happened. I mean look at the political landscape in the NE - so much fucking blue it would have been unfathomable just 10 years ago. If these morons had the slightest doubt that an alternative to the sitting government would consider returning to the SM / CU, they'd stick with voting Tory. They're that fucking belligerent. 

[Toonpack 9927]

39 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

Sadly mate it's demonstrable of the lack of intelligence of many people. All the want to see is "the back of the EU, immigration to be tightly controlled and us getting our country back" Not to mention a blue passport 🙄

These people climbed political walls to change sides to make sure this happened. I mean look at the political landscape in the NE - so much fucking blue it would have been unfathomable just 10 years ago. If these morons had the slightest doubt that an alternative to the sitting government would consider returning to the SM / CU, they'd stick with voting Tory. They're that fucking belligerent. 

 

Exactly that, and that's why he/Labour can't be seen to go against that (yet).

 

Bottom line, Brexit is the shitshow many predicted but the reality is it's going to be decades before we could rejoin, single market/FoM "may" be a first step, but it can't be mooted yet, or the rabid thick cunts will just go Tory again.

 

 

[Renton 21983]

13 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Exactly that, and that's why he/Labour can't be seen to go against that (yet).

 

Bottom line, Brexit is the shitshow many predicted but the reality is it's going to be decades before we could rejoin, single market/FoM "may" be a first step, but it can't be mooted yet, or the rabid thick cunts will just go Tory again.

 

 

 

The referendum wasn't on SM/FoM though, was it? Many Brexiters promised we would stay in. Who do you think said this?

 

Quote

I have to say that everybody from David Cameron to half this panel say, "Wouldn't it be terrible if we were like Norway and Switzerland?" Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self governing.“
 

 

Honestly, the biggest problem is people are just bored of it [Brexit] now. So don't highlight it as an issue, but ffs, don't completely limit your options in power either and alienate half your voter base, the ones that have been loyal to you. The biggest issue, by far, in the next 2 years will be the cost of living crisis. Which of course is made worse by Brexit, and people are waking up to this. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Renton

[Alex 35571]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

I mean. come on, look at the state of this. How are we letting Johnson get away with "getting Brexit done" when he's going to break international law to renege on his own deal? There is so much ammo against the tories its unreal. 

 

 

 

This shows why he’s playing this strategy though. Anything else and it’s literally all the Tories will talk about in the lead up to the next election. 

[Toonpack 9927]

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The referendum wasn't on SM/FoM though, was it? Many Brexiters promised we would stay in. Who do you think said this?

 

 

Honestly, the biggest problem is people are just bored of it [Brexit] now. So don't highlight it as an issue, but ffs, don't completely limit your options in power either and alienate half your voter base, the ones that have been loyal to you. The biggest issue, by far, in the next 2 years will be the cost of living crisis. Which of course is made worse by Brexit, and people are waking up to this. 

 

Look man, it doesn't matter what anyone said in amongst the trainload of lies. We are where we are and the cunts who hold votes that can swing it either way are totally entrenched.

 

Madness to stir up that hornets nest now, let the Torries eat themselves some more and when you are in power THEN you can set the agenda.

 

It's going to take years, whatever happens.

 

Saw an interesting comment on twitter along lines of:

 

Let Labour spend their time pointing out the fuck up that is the Tories brexit. Lib Dem will make it a condition of any form of coalition to form a government that we rejoin the SM etc. 

 

Aye, so folks are bored with it but it wouldn't take much for the Sun/Mail/Torygraph to get the dim fuckers wound up about the forrins again, don't give them the opportunity.

 

I hate brexit as much as you but I accept it's going to be a long tortuous road back.

 

 

[Toonpack 9927]

Without Brexit the torries have absolutely nothing

[Alex 35571]

Toonpack is right. The litany of lies was clear to everyone with two brain cells to rub together before the last election. Obviously Corbyn was a factor but the election win was more or less purely down to the perception Brexit would be done and we’d get our sovereignty back etc. Any rowing back on that in terms of election pledges would give Johnson a field day 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Alex

[NJS 4411]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

The referendum wasn't on SM/FoM though, was it? Many Brexiters promised we would stay in.

I think you're naive to think ending FoM wasn't the major reason most people who did so voted leave - and those voters had no clue about the CU /SM. 

[Craig 6700]

We live in a time where the political chess game is more crucial than ever. If Starmer was a pure ideologist, he wouldn't IMO stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected. Sure, he'd get mine and your votes, but to get into Number 10, they're not the people he has to win over. 

I admired Corbyn for the fact he wouldn't be swayed from his principles, but that characteristic contributed massively to him being unelectable - it was too niche and was never going to disauade those thick cunts who 'just wanted Brexit done'. And look, they got what they wanted, it's an utter shitshow and STILL they think it's the right thing to have happened. 

Forget mention of SM/FoM, even the absence of disregarding it at this stage would drive those morons into getting behind another 5 years of Tory rule. 

[Renton 21983]

1 hour ago, Toonpack said:

Madness to stir up that hornets nest now,

 

See that's what I think he's done anyway. Why does the appeasement always go one way, to appease the ones that got us into this mess in the first place. To take away the voice of the young, Scotland, the membership, and the working man (most people in employment voted remain)? I think you're all making out Brexit to be a bigger isssue than it is, The LD huge victories in very Brexity areas shows this. But really what you're saying is Labour have to run scared of the Murdoch press rather than take them on. I've personally never been convinced they have that much power and its diminishing now, as is Johnsons personal appeal.

 

But I'm not saying I want Starmer to say he'd take us into into the SM. I'm just not happy he's closed the door on it entirely, because that's exactly what he's done. He didn't have to, and he has alienated a large proportion of his voters, many of whom will not vote for him now. I also now think that he should come up with some real policies on constitutional reform, and meean them. Bin FPTP, get PR, and let's talk about full devolution of the regions. As I said in my first post today, I am sick of voting anything but tory, I want to vote positively for something for the fist time since Blair. I feel Starmer is letting me down. 

[Renton 21983]

And btw, Starmer's plan is completely illiterate too, more cakeism. Shows he is clearly clueless or just good old fashioned lying. So I'm sick of this too. 

[Gemmill 46024]

You know most people don't even know what the single market is right? All they'll hear and all they'll be told is Labour want to undo Brexit. 

 

People are not across the detail of this issue. They don't understand the nuance and they don't want to fucking hear it explained. They deal in binary arguments. 

 

 

[Renton 21983]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

You know most people don't even know what the single market is right? All they'll hear and all they'll be told is Labour want to undo Brexit. 

 

People are not across the detail of this issue. They don't understand the nuance and they don't want to fucking hear it explained. They deal in binary arguments. 

 

 

Funny,  just watching the news there and people were saying this anyway, they don't trust Starmers U turn and won't vote for him. He's managed to piss off just about everyone except this board. 

[Holden McGroin 6783]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

You know most people don't even know what the single market is right? All they'll hear and all they'll be told is Labour want to undo Brexit. 

 

People are not across the detail of this issue. They don't understand the nuance and they don't want to fucking hear it explained. They deal in binary arguments. 

 

 

100%. Catchy bullshit statements will win the war.

 

I've just looked up the 2019 Tory manifesto and the first thing it says - we'll get Brexit done. Just shite soundbites that idiots will gobble up. These idiots decide the fate of our country not the knowledgeable. 

 

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan

[Gemmill 46024]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

Funny,  just watching the news there and people were saying this anyway, they don't trust Starmers U turn and won't vote for him. He's managed to piss off just about everyone except this board. 

 

 

Wow they gauged the opinion of a nation on the 6 o clock news. I guess that's another 5 years of honest man Johnson then if people don't trust naughty lying Starmer. 

 

[Holden McGroin 6783]

Rents is having a mare here.

[Renton 21983]

I'm really not. Not one person has even bothered to say what this means for Scotland. I'm calling back up @Rayvin @spongebob toonpants.

[Gemmill 46024]

WON'T THEY THINK OF THE SCOTTISH!?

 

Brexit has happened.  It's not Starmer's fault that the jocks are agitating for another referendum. 

[Renton 21983]

3 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

WON'T THEY THINK OF THE SCOTTISH!?

 

Brexit has happened.  It's not Starmer's fault that the jocks are agitating for another referendum. 

 

Well it clearly is partly his fault. Enabling a hard Brexit isn't a good look. He needs real ideas to stop the dissolution of the Union, we've got zip so far.

[Alex 35571]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

Funny,  just watching the news there and people were saying this anyway, they don't trust Starmers U turn and won't vote for him. He's managed to piss off just about everyone except this board. 

Was that the BBC news perchance?