Europe --- In or Out

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

No she was getting gelous

 

She's a barber

[Rayvin 5223]

7 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Easy. I'm sick of the whole carry on and want to see an end game yet all I see is people taking false positions to suit their argument.

For example, perhaps cheap Australian meat will give more impoverished kids access to meat.

But no. I wonder if Renton ever holidayed outside the EU. 

 

Have pulled this back in here because the CV thread isn't the place for it really.

 

See, I can understand that position to a point - but you do seem to be taking a lot of this personally. There's no endgame coming as far as I can tell, this is going to run on for quite some time yet (in my view, generations). And its worth noting that for leavers, this was a 40 year struggle. It's going to be the same the other way around now, I'm almost certain of it. So buckle in for the long term, especially if you're going to be this animated about it.

 

As for false positions, I do feel like there's a big misunderstanding of motive that leavers have when viewing remainers. I want, as I assume the rest of the people here do, what is best for this country. I'm not a farmer or a fisherman, but I still want those industries in this country to succeed. I am proud (or at least was) of the country I was born and raised in, and for me a lot of that came down to our international clout and success - especially when considering how small a country we are. While I wasn't proud of our imperial past, we were transitioning into something positive on the whole. What I see from Brexit is that we are hugely diminished and weakened. I see it as an act of traitors, and I really mean that. None of us have to be farmers to be annoyed that a British industry is going to be hurt by this.

 

Maybe you're right and the cheaper meat will allow impoverished children to afford it. However there's an inevitable standards issue there of course, so we need to look at why the Australians are cheaper. We also need to consider that this will likely cause a race to the bottom within the UK market as our own farmers struggle to compete - meaning a drop in standards for everyone and maybe our farms going out of business, thus impacting our sustainability in any future food crisis.

 

Alternatively we could have more equally distributed resources so that children living in poverty could afford British meat, stayed in the EU, and avoided the drop in standards. I don't personally think Brexit was the answer to that issue, I think a Labour government would have been.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

On 22/06/2021 at 05:55, TheGingerQuiff said:

I'm the only one with videos, I made sure I let him know as well

 You da man! 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Correct, captain underpants sniffer 

[ewerk 30633]

Quote

Mobile operator EE will charge new customers extra to use their mobile phones in Europe from January.

Those joining or upgrading from 7 July 2021 will be charged £2 a day to use their allowances in 47 European destinations from January 2022.

EE previously said it had no plans to reintroduce roaming charges in Europe.

It is the first UK operator to reintroduce the charges since the Brexit trade deal was signed at the end of December.

Since 2017, mobile networks in EU countries have not been allowed to charge customers extra to use their phones in other EU countries.

Thanks, Brexiters.

[The Fish 10858]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Thanks, Brexiters.

Hey, we're not allowed to talk about the shitstorm that followed people voting for Brexit! It might make them sad.

[Renton 21636]

Brexit is great. See, it's got BT investing in Great British infrastructure. 

Quote

EE to introduce post-Brexit roaming charges for phone use in rest of Europe from January

EE will impose roaming charges on customers using their mobile phones in other European countries from next year, despite previously saying it had no plans to reintroduce them after Brexit, PA Media reports. PA says:

The move will affect new customers and those upgrading from 7 July, who face a £2 daily fee from January 2022 to use their data, minutes and text allowance when roaming in 47 European destinations.

The Republic of Ireland will be exempt.

BT-owned EE said the move is designed to “support investment into our UK-based customer service and leading UK network”.

Roaming charges when travelling across Europe ended in June 2017, allowing consumers to continue using their mobile plan in other EU nations at no additional cost, with a fair-use limit.

Although network providers could choose to bring back charges once the UK had left the EU, the main four - EE, O2, Three and Vodafone - said they had no plans to do so.

 

[Dr Gloom 21941]

Iron Maiden singer Bruce Dickinson surprised that his vote helped shaft his industry 

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

I'm honestly starting to think that your average leaver wanted a Brexit wherein we could go over to Europe as if we were in the single market, but Europeans couldn't do the same with us.

 

The EU said clearly that it wouldn't compromise its political integrity for anyone. What does he expect the government to do about this situation? Our government is utterly powerless in the face of the EU presently - both because we're run by the most stupid collection of politicians I've ever seen, and because we need them so much more than they need us.

[Renton 21636]

9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Iron Maiden singer Bruce Dickinson surprised that his vote helped shaft his industry 

 

 

 

Lucky for the EU they won't have to listen to that shit that somehow is classified as music.

 

It's amazing how many Brexiteers never understood the basics. Of course it's easier to tour the United States, that is one country. The EU is 27 countries requiring 27 times the paper work. What Leavers never seem to have understood is the FoM works both ways. And immigration issues with third countries is not an EU competency, it is up to each individual sovereign country. Hence the net effect of Brexit on us will be to kill off our services industry whilst increasing physical immigration from places like India.

 

Feel genuinely sorry for musicians affected who didn't vote for this shit show. I feel more concern for scientists who were pretty unanimously against it. We led the EU in R&D, but the decline since Brexit has been horrific. I know loads of talented Europeans who have gone back home.

 

 

 

 

 

[NJS 4389]

I know it's easy to say, but despite the obvious lies about staying in the SM/CU it was obviously the main driving force of the leave movement and voters was to end freedom of movement so not realising stuff like music touring was definitely going to be fucked needed an enhanced degree of blindness/stupidity. 

[NJS 4389]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm honestly starting to think that your average leaver wanted a Brexit wherein we could go over to Europe as if we were in the single market, but Europeans couldn't do the same with us.

 

The EU said clearly that it wouldn't compromise its political integrity for anyone. What does he expect the government to do about this situation? Our government is utterly powerless in the face of the EU presently - both because we're run by the most stupid collection of politicians I've ever seen, and because we need them so much more than they need us.

They were offered an exemption for music touring by the EU but turned it down. 

[Rayvin 5223]

6 minutes ago, NJS said:

They were offered an exemption for music touring by the EU but turned it down. 

 

I mean of course  Presumably because that would somehow make us look needy.

[Renton 21636]

4 minutes ago, NJS said:

They were offered an exemption for music touring by the EU but turned it down. 

 

They were but why the fuck should musicians be exempt? What about other service industries? Let's have some logical consistency here. I think the lack of mutual recognition of professional qualifications, especially in medicine, is going to cause huge problems in future. That'll impact the gammons in the form of a failing NHS, not that they will connect the dots. 

[Renton 21636]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

I mean of course  Presumably because that would somehow make us look needy.

 

No, it required reciprocality, and we can't be having that. 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

I see. I mean it's just fucking tedious, all of this.

 

Anyone with half a brain could have negotiated a better Brexit than the one we got.

[Renton 21636]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I see. I mean it's just fucking tedious, all of this.

 

Anyone with half a brain could have negotiated a better Brexit than the one we got.

 

It goes back to your point though about there being no point in having a Norway solution, being in the SM with no political influence. Because only being in the SM can solve these issues (mutual recognition of standards and qualifications, and ultimately FoM), which means accepting the ECJ, which is a red line for the loons. The closer we align, the more restricted we are, and we won't accept that. I genuinely don't think people have got the magnitude of this, covid has been a blessing to the tories as it has covered up so much damage already done. 

[Rayvin 5223]

54 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It goes back to your point though about there being no point in having a Norway solution, being in the SM with no political influence. Because only being in the SM can solve these issues (mutual recognition of standards and qualifications, and ultimately FoM), which means accepting the ECJ, which is a red line for the loons. The closer we align, the more restricted we are, and we won't accept that. I genuinely don't think people have got the magnitude of this, covid has been a blessing to the tories as it has covered up so much damage already done. 

 

True. I think the bitter pill to swallow in all of this, in the end, will be that 'Joe Public' will have to accept that educated subject matter experts do know more about the technical specifics of certain issues than he does, and that he would be wise to allow himself to be informed by their opinions.

 

But as you say, the magnitude of it is masked - hopefully in time it will be apparent.

[Renton 21636]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

True. I think the bitter pill to swallow in all of this, in the end, will be that 'Joe Public' will have to accept that educated subject matter experts do know more about the technical specifics of certain issues than he does, and that he would be wise to allow himself to be informed by their opinions.

 

But as you say, the magnitude of it is masked - hopefully in time it will be apparent.

 

It'll become massively apparent to the younger half of the population who will feel the full impact. The older more gammony boomers not so much, as they'll not be massively impacted and/or will never admit it anyway. The selfishness of these cunts still astounds me, they literally don't care about anyone else as long as they're not (directly) affected.

 

I wish I was younger or had played my hand differently over the last 20 years mind. Staying shackled to the NHS with ever decreasing pay and conditions was a mistake from a personal pov. I thought the tories would be temporary but was wrong. Lots of clinical staff are waking up to this reality too I think. Working in the private sector in just a few weeks I've been given possible opportunities to work in Switzerland (made harder by Brexit like), but I'm too settled here now to really consider it. I hope/think things will get better here, although it's made much more difficult by the tories scorched Earth policies (which is what a lot of this is really about).  We've lost at least a generation of time to the tories, its up to the young now to stop them. 

[Renton 21636]

 

 

It's like David Frost has dementia, I mean really what the fuck does this have to do with anything?! 

[The Fish 10858]

5 hours ago, Rayvin said:

I'm honestly starting to think that your average leaver wanted a Brexit wherein we could go over to Europe as if we were in the single market, but Europeans couldn't do the same with us.

Of course that's what they thought. They genuinely thought it would be nothing but sunlit uplands. They dramatically overestimated both our bargaining power and the negotiating skills of the feckless panderers 'leading' the charge. They bought the lies of Leave because they didn't give it sufficient thought, but still voted. Whereas the Remain campaign didn't do enough to lay out the cost and risks to the UK, nor inspire enough people to vote to dilute the reckless Leave vote.

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Of course that's what they thought. They genuinely thought it would be nothing but sunlit uplands. They dramatically overestimated both our bargaining power and the negotiating skills of the feckless panderers 'leading' the charge. They bought the lies of Leave because they didn't give it sufficient thought, but still voted. Whereas the Remain campaign didn't do enough to lay out the cost and risks to the UK, nor inspire enough people to vote to dilute the reckless Leave vote.

 

Yep. I think we should have worked on attaching a sense of national identity/pride to being in the EU frankly, how we were leaders within it, shaping a destiny for all of Europe.

 

Or better yet, we could have not had the bloody referendum at a time when the government and 'elites' were pissing on the average man in the street with austerity.

[Kitman 2207]

It’s almost as if the Leave campaign was based on nothing but a bunch of jingoistic nonsense, blatant lies and anti-foreigner rhetoric. Full blown Boris in other words. Perfect for the gammons and windowlickers that voted for brexit….no actual thinking required to give johnny foreigner a black eye, ay what what!

 

“You can’t change the masses. They will always be the same: dumb, gluttonous and forgetful.” a media and PR expert once said.
 

This is the age of anti-reason, where what you choose to believe is far more important than facts or logic. People needed to feel the consequences  and what it would cost them personally.
 

Tell them they will lose their cheap wine, good beer, nice cars, cheap holidays, cheap food, millions of jobs, dope and hookers, free money, whatever, make it up like Boris and Nigel did. Flood social media with alarmist headlines, grab the news cycle and wheel out the celebs (rather than some dweeby patronising Tory Lord).
 

My impression watching from afar was that the Remain campaign was a half hearted shambles and totally clueless, with most Remain supporters not being arsed to vote. A shambles which, as pointed out above, has fucked young people royally because they will end up paying for the resulting mess in the future.

[ewerk 30633]

16 hours ago, Renton said:

 

 

It's like David Frost has dementia, I mean really what the fuck does this have to do with anything?! 

He has a nerve mind.

Quote

Stars like Sir Elton John should help the government persuade European Union countries to relax their rules on letting British musicians tour, Brexit minister Lord Frost has said.

British acts are no longer guaranteed visa-free travel in the EU and face large fees to tour in some countries.

Many, including Sir Elton, have warned the restrictions could "threaten the future success of British music".

Lord Frost said the government would benefit from their assistance.

He said it would be "extremely helpful" if musicians and music industry bodies could "use their relationships" within the EU "to encourage those governments to be less restrictive".

"I said that to Elton John and I will say it to others," he told a committee of MPs on Tuesday. "We need that sort of help and support, and I'm convinced it would make a big difference to help improve the situation."

 

[Alex 35095]

Well the England football team have only ever won anything under a Labour government. Is that how this works?