Europe --- In or Out

[Dr Gloom 21801]

It’s what the Nissan employees voted for 

[Renton 21231]

42 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

It’s what the Nissan employees voted for 

Tbf we don't know what they voted for, although there are anecdotes about some cheering the results on the night shift.

 

Nissan directly employs about 7000 people. But there are something like 30,000 in the supply chain, most based in the NE. This will be catastrophic for the area and no amount of "I told you so"'s is going to change that reality. This area is fucked.  

[PaddockLad 17067]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/108049/nissan-invests-ps400m-sunderland-plant#click=https://t.co/0A5kUeg6c9

[PaddockLad 17067]

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/business/nissan-dismisses-reports-it-set-close-its-sunderland-plant-3045230

[ewerk 30221]

10 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/108049/nissan-invests-ps400m-sunderland-plant#click=https://t.co/0A5kUeg6c9

There would be obvious costs but that equipment could be moved to another plant so the entire investment wouldn’t be lost.

A 10% tariff on car exports simply cannot be sustained so without a deal Nissan will inevitably leave the U.K. 

[Renton 21231]

 Tariffs and regulatory friction will kill NMUK, was always the case. An FTA won't solve the regulatiory issues and related friction and their margins are small, far less than the tariff. Nissan is a footloose company with masses of capacity in Europe.

 

They will be gone within 5 years, it's not as if people weren't warned. Even CT realised it, but for some reason didn't care in the end. Too late now. 

[Dr Gloom 21801]

25 minutes ago, Renton said:

Tbf we don't know what they voted for, although there are anecdotes about some cheering the results on the night shift.

 

Nissan directly employs about 7000 people. But there are something like 30,000 in the supply chain, most based in the NE. This will be catastrophic for the area and no amount of "I told you so"'s is going to change that reality. This area is fucked.  

There were interviews aplenty in aftermath of the Brexit vote with Nissan staff on why they voted leave. The same people were told by their employer their job could be at risk if Britain left the EU. Beggars belief 

[PaddockLad 17067]

13 minutes ago, ewerk said:

There would be obvious costs but that equipment could be moved to another plant so the entire investment wouldn’t be lost.

A 10% tariff on car exports simply cannot be sustained so without a deal Nissan will inevitably leave the U.K. 

 

Yep....at the end of the nineties we built a new paint shop & production line for Fords’s transit van plant at Southampton...the paint shop was on 5 levels and dominated the east end of the city, it was fuckin enormous. All gone in a decade, production moved to Turkey via a loan from the EU..

[Renton 21231]

11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Yep....at the end of the nineties we built a new paint shop & production line for Fords’s transit van plant at Southampton...the paint shop was on 5 levels and dominated the east end of the city, it was fuckin enormous. All gone in a decade, production moved to Turkey via a loan from the EU..

 

Have you got a reliable source for that last bit? Sounds a bit facebooky bollocksy. 

[PaddockLad 17067]

Just now, Renton said:

 

Have you got a reliable source for that last bit? Sounds a bit facebooky bollocksy. 

I know what you mean but I checked it out years ago and it’s true....gammons said it was a bung but the EU loaned Ford money that year, obviously Ford had to pay it back but  equally Ford could’ve borrowed from elsewhere...

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

[Renton 21231]

31 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

I know what you mean but I checked it out years ago and it’s true....gammons said it was a bung but the EU loaned Ford money that year, obviously Ford had to pay it back but  equally Ford could’ve borrowed from elsewhere...

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

 

I'd blame that purely on Ford cost cutting and rationalizing their transit van business model tbh. The role of the EIB and by extension the EU seems incidental to me. Car manufacturers will relocate to where market conditions are most favourable and the profit margin is highest. As Sunderland Nissan workers unfortunately will soon find out.

 

http://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/

 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

They'll be able to build in Japan and export to the eu without tariff soon anyway

[Renton 21231]

Maybe. Although Japan has higher labour costs and you would have to factor in shipping costs. This is definitely a self inflicted wound imo. 

[ewerk 30221]

7 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

They'll be able to build in Japan and export to the eu without tariff soon anyway

Not really, it will be another 12 or 13 years before the tariff falls to zero.

[PaddockLad 17067]

8 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I'd blame that purely on Ford cost cutting and rationalizing their transit van business model tbh. The role of the EIB and by extension the EU seems incidental to me. Car manufacturers will relocate to where market conditions are most favourable and the profit margin is highest. As Sunderland Nissan workers unfortunately will soon find out.

 

http://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/

 

 

Depends on the rate at which Ford borrowed ....Were they were induced by cheap money from the EU to invest in a country where the EU was seeking to gain a foothold as a prelude to membership?(not likely in the foreseeable, obvs) 

[Renton 21231]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

Not really, it will be another 12 or 13 years before the tariff falls to zero.

 

I think that's the EU Japan deal. Iirc with the UK Japan deal tariffs drop to zero much sooner. Even less incentive to base themselves here. 

[Tom 14011]

You’d hope Nissan will stay but I just can’t see it happening. They’ve warned about this for the best part of a decade.

Thats a lot of well paid jobs lost.

[Rayvin 5164]

I remember a few people saying, some years ago when this was all kicking off, that maybe Brexit is what this country needs to finally move on from the Imperial past and embrace a global future. The failure of it will demonstrate to people how deluded our imperialist mindset is.

 

Brexit is basically the UK's midlife crisis - divorce the wife, lose all the stability but convince yourself that you're going to be free, like how you used to be. The euphoria lasts for a while before you realise that yeah, you're free, but that you lost all that stability, mutual co-operation and support. Meanwhile your ex wife who missed you to begin with, is now increasingly happy to be shot of you and moving on towards a better future. Your thoughts turn to regrets, what could have been, how good things actually were once - and eventually you turn to drink, put on weight, and wonder what the point of being alive is  as a nation, we are living this collectively.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Rayvin

[Alex 34786]

As soon as the free trade deal was agreed between Japan and the EU I thought the writing was on the wall for Nissan. The much-vaunted UK/Japan deal just makes it even more likely, ironically. It’s an absolute tragedy waiting to happen as far as the NE is concerned. Perhaps people seeing the consequences of believing Russian memes on Facebook might bring about a change to the status quo but I won’t hold my breath

[Dr Gloom 21801]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I remember a few people saying, some years ago when this was all kicking off, that maybe Brexit is what this country needs to finally move on from the Imperial past and embrace a global future. The failure of it will demonstrate to people how deluded our imperialist mindset is.

 

Brexit is basically the UK's midlife crisis - divorce the wife, lose all the stability but convince yourself that you're going to be free, like how you used to be. The euphoria lasts for a while before you realise that yeah, you're free, but that you lost all that stability, mutual co-operation and support. Meanwhile your ex wife who missed you to begin with, is now increasingly happy to be shot of you and moving on towards a better future. Your thoughts turn to regrets, what could have been, how good things actually were once - and eventually you turn to drink, put on weight, and wonder what the point of being alive is  as a nation, we are living this collectively.

perfectly put

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I remember a few people saying, some years ago when this was all kicking off, that maybe Brexit is what this country needs to finally move on from the Imperial past and embrace a global future. The failure of it will demonstrate to people how deluded our imperialist mindset is.

 

Brexit is basically the UK's midlife crisis - divorce the wife, lose all the stability but convince yourself that you're going to be free, like how you used to be. The euphoria lasts for a while before you realise that yeah, you're free, but that you lost all that stability, mutual co-operation and support. Meanwhile your ex wife who missed you to begin with, is now increasingly happy to be shot of you and moving on towards a better future. Your thoughts turn to regrets, what could have been, how good things actually were once - and eventually you turn to drink, put on weight, and wonder what the point of being alive is  as a nation, we are living this collectively.

Can I add that the kids are likely to move in with their mum too and have little to do with their dad?

 

[Alex 34786]

Makes sense, I think you need a positive to at least try and balance out all those negatives

[Monkeys Fist 42004]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

I remember a few people saying, some years ago when this was all kicking off, that maybe Brexit is what this country needs to finally move on from the Imperial past and embrace a global future. The failure of it will demonstrate to people how deluded our imperialist mindset is.

 

Brexit is basically the UK's midlife crisis - divorce the wife, lose all the stability but convince yourself that you're going to be free, like how you used to be. The euphoria lasts for a while before you realise that yeah, you're free, but that you lost all that stability, mutual co-operation and support. Meanwhile your ex wife who missed you to begin with, is now increasingly happy to be shot of you and moving on towards a better future. Your thoughts turn to regrets, what could have been, how good things actually were once - and eventually you turn to drink, put on weight, and wonder what the point of being alive is  as a nation, we are living this collectively.

@TheGingerQuiff, don’t read this mate, it’s soon. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

6 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

@TheGingerQuiff, don’t read this mate, it’s soon. 

 

she'll be crawling back soon I'm already seeing the subtle moves. Carrying a custard pie around with me for when the inevitable happens 

[RobinRobin 11113]

15 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Brexit is basically the UK's midlife crisis - divorce the wife, lose all the stability but convince yourself that you're going to be free, like how you used to be. The euphoria lasts for a while before you realise that yeah, you're free, but that you lost all that stability, mutual co-operation and support. Meanwhile your ex wife who missed you to begin with, is now increasingly happy to be shot of you and moving on towards a better future. Your thoughts turn to regrets, what could have been, how good things actually were once - and eventually you turn to drink, put on weight, and wonder what the point of being alive is  as a nation, we are living this collectively.

?