Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4725]

172 to 40 against Corbyn

[Rayvin 5217]

Beat you to it, CT.

[Gemmill 44814]

Shadow cabinet to be picked from that 40. Business as usual.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Is that the best Labour has left?

I know Watson is popular within the party but always seems quite quiet / timid when I've seen him.

 

Eagle is very clever and aggressive (can hit home well), but I find her horrible. Not sure the masses would love her, but with very good policies, she would hammer them home.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Beat you to it, CT.

Well done.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

 

howay man.

 

Seriously if you are not sure, look back through the thread or google it.

 

good one

[Christmas Tree 4725]

There's meant to be a joint letter from major labour local authorities coming today telling him to go as well.

 

He's not going though. Absolute shame for the party.

[Alex 35064]

Alex man give it a rest.

 

Me not knowing Cameron is going to step down is not me changing my view.

 

In these forum discussions, there is serious exchanges, piss takes from all members and sometimes both mixed together.

 

While Krugman is saying a lot of the stuff I've been saying, I think even you know I'm being tongue in cheek when I say I'm right about everything.

 

The whole point in discussing this sort of issue btw, is to make your case and understand others viewpoints and as such, views will change over time as events unfold.

 

May I kindly suggest you drink less coffee and get your nails clipped.

You constantly change your position on virtually everything. It's not even a matter of debate. That's what I was alluding to. I doubt anyone needed that explaining, bar you.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

You constantly change your position on virtually everything. It's not even a matter of debate. That's what I was alluding to. I doubt anyone needed that explaining, bar you.

Ok

[Alex 35064]

Glad we agree

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Meanwhile, Sky sources have it down to May, Boris and Crabb as the big 3 for PM.

 

I think my favourite would be May (currently), but I reserve the right to change my view depending on seeing their pitches.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

do you honestly think the euro is going to collapse CT? even after Draghi's "do what ever it takes" speech? investors seem far more concerned about Brexit right now .

 

is that honestly the reason you think we're better off out of the EU?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

God, even some of Corbyns newly appointed cabinet decided to abstain

[Dr Gloom 21912]

i don't for a second think it is by the way.

[Rayvin 5217]

He's right that the members have to decide this. Feels like the PLP are about to get their noses bloodied...

[Christmas Tree 4725]

do you honestly think the euro is going to collapse CT? even after Draghi's "do what ever it takes" speech? investors seem far more concerned about Brexit right now .

 

is that honestly the reason you think we're better off out of the EU?

I don't know if it will, but it looks as though it's heading that way. ( look at Krugmans view).

 

And as I've mentioned several times there are many reasons why I think we're better off out.

[The Fish 10855]

If I thought voting out was the right thing, but I looked around and saw what kind of person such a vote legitimises, I'd think again. Ill-educated, ill-informed bigots.

 

Not every Brexiteer is racist, but every racist seems to be a Brexiteer.

 

@CT, I know you enjoy the spotlight of being contrary and I know you often couch your positions in such terms that mean when you're later challenged on them you can dismiss them as a bit of piss-taking or whatever but, after all is said and done, the out vote has at best cost the country hundreds of millions, it looks very likely that it'll cost the country jobs, the chancellor whose budgets you've applauded in past is predicting higher taxes and more austerity to cover the exit, and it has seen the racists and bigots legitimised by the ill-informed.

 

I guess what I'm asking is this, isn't all this too high a price to pay for what is essentially blind faith that it'll be better out of the EU?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

If I thought voting out was the right thing, but I looked around and saw what kind of person such a vote legitimises, I'd think again. Ill-educated, ill-informed bigots.

 

Not every Brexiteer is racist, but every racist seems to be a Brexiteer.

 

@CT, I know you enjoy the spotlight of being contrary and I know you often couch your positions in such terms that mean when you're later challenged on them you can dismiss them as a bit of piss-taking or whatever but, after all is said and done, the out vote has at best cost the country hundreds of millions, it looks very likely that it'll cost the country jobs, the chancellor whose budgets you've applauded in past is predicting higher taxes and more austerity to cover the exit, and it has seen the racists and bigots legitimised by the ill-informed.

 

I guess what I'm asking is this, isn't all this too high a price to pay for what is essentially blind faith that it'll be better out of the EU?

You're here for a fight, I'm here to discuss what's going on in politics. If you are interested in my views, they are well stated in this thread.

[The Fish 10855]

You're here for a fight, I'm here to discuss what's going on in politics. If you are interested in my views, they are well stated in this thread.

No I'm not.

 

Is this uncertainty, this legitimising of an awful minority, this financial cost, the global reaction which has been "What the actual fuck Britain?" (aside from people like Trump, le Pen, Griffin, et al), all these things... aren't they worrying you? You may have voted for the right reasons, but look at who you're standing shoulder to shoulder with... doesn't that worry you?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Brexit 'most important moment since Berlin Wall': Le Pen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36653381

[Renton 21592]

I thought it was business as usual?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

I guess there's a whole number of reasons on each side why people reached their views. Some will have more weight than others and some on each side will only be proven true or false in years to come.

 

i can't be arsed to trawl back through all your posts. it struck me, from what i can remember, that you were on the fence till quite late in the day, then once you decided you were for leave, your argument was based on taking back control of the borders and repatriating powers from brussels. i recall you dismissing concerns about immediate market volatility, not just here but abroad too, and predictions that a brexit would damage our economy in the short and long term as part of project fear. do you concede now that the short term warnings look accurate?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

i can't be arsed to trawl back through all your posts. it struck me, from what i can remember, that you were on the fence till quite late in the day, then once you decided you were for leave, your argument was based on taking back control of the borders and repatriating powers from brussels. i recall you dismissing concerns about immediate market volatility, not just here but abroad too, and predictions that a brexit would damage our economy in the short and long term as part of project fear. do you concede now that the short term warnings look accurate?

 

You've a crap memory.

 

When asked about the famous "business as usual", that's now getting totally taken out of context, I replied that there might well be a recession but that reports suggested it would be the mildest recession in 60 years and that we've been through a few recessions over the last 30 years and business has carried on as normal.

 

So no I wasn't dismissing any market volatility, simply suggesting that it was not going to be the Armageddon project fear were claiming.

 

 

I've mentioned to you several times about viewing the markets with some perspective and now Krugman has suggested you do the same.

 

Have you read it yet?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

 

You've a crap memory.

 

When asked about the famous "business as usual", that's now getting totally taken out of context, I replied that there might well be a recession but that reports suggested it would be the mildest recession in 60 years and that we've been through a few recessions over the last 30 years and business has carried on as normal.

 

So no I wasn't dismissing any market volatility, simply suggesting that it was not going to be the Armageddon project fear were claiming.

 

 

I've mentioned to you several times about viewing the markets with some perspective and now Krugman has suggested you do the same.

 

Have you read it yet?

Yes, I did. It's an interesting piece, which does offer a crumb of hope. Certainly not the consensus view by any stretch.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

That post you quoted has you replying to Renton, saying that it'll be business as usual economically and politically. Why refer to a post you got spectacularly wrong?

 

For what it's worth, there are parts of the EU I would have liked to see reformed. Its democratic deficit would have been a good area for the leave campaign to have debated. But it was ignored in favour of lies about immigration. Shame there wasn't an intelligent public debate.

 

But we are unquestionably a stronger country in rather than out, economically, and, for now at least, politically too. I think the next few weeks will continue to prove that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong but the majority of intelligent analyses suggests otherwise. Your prediction of a mild recession seems wildly optimistic at this point.