Rayvin 5183 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said: You trust the public of this country with a referendum?? Â Â Â Â I do now. And honestly even if I'm wrong, I'll be less pissed about No Deal if it's actually clear that the public voted for it instead of the whole process being hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42066 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I wouldn’t let the dumb fuckers anywhere near it.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said: I wouldn’t let the dumb fuckers anywhere near it.   How do you handle the fallout of outright revoke though? I wouldn't have had the original referendum to start with but now that we have I don't see any other politically legitimate way of resolving it. Edited September 21, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21310 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Rayvin said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/thornberry-labour-could-back-tory-brexit-deal-in-exchange-for-referendum  Labour could vote through any deal Boris comes back with as long as we get a referendum on it. I think I'm ok on this idea.  This makes sense. They won't agree though and Johnson isn't getting a deal in any case.  Momentum have fucked things up yet again for me trying to oust Watson. I may have to go LD after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21310 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Â How do you handle the fallout of outright revoke though? I wouldn't have had the original referendum to start with but now that we have I don't see any other politically legitimate way of resolving it. Bridget made the point on Remainiacs. I reluctantly agree. It has to end with a referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42066 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Treat people like the adults they aren’t- tell them Brexit is political, financial, and social suicide.  They’ll get over it, most will be dead soon anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I think that kind of bargain suggested by Thornberry was mooted when those talks took place with May earlier in the year but the tories think another vote is completely out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Â Well this nicely sets up a Corbyn vs the membership battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Looks like the unions will just bloc vote it out of existence. Labour could barely be a bigger shitshow at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I know the Supreme Court said "early this week" but how is their ruling actually delivered? Do they just stick it on their website when it's done or is there another convening of the court.  Come on ewerk, find this out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Verdicts are normally handed down in the court itself with the judgement published online shortly after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019  Short thread.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Some fucking sense at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 What would that mean though - I was coming around to Corbyn's position as the best way of bridging the divide. Going out and out Remain seems polarising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 They have to pick a position pre election man. You can't ask people to vote for you when you can't decide what you're going to do on Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Also, this provides the possibility of a mandate for Remain. If you go into the election undecided you don't have that, and that is hugely important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Rayvin said: What would that mean though - I was coming around to Corbyn's position as the best way of bridging the divide. Going out and out Remain seems polarising. This doesn’t mean that he can’t go forward with his plan to negotiate and deal and then put it to a referendum. What it does though is commit him to campaigning for remain rather than being neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, ewerk said: This doesn’t mean that he can’t go forward with his plan to negotiate and deal and then put it to a referendum. What it does though is commit him to campaigning for remain rather than being neutral.  I guess that's what we want, but I don't really think his neutral stance was necessarily wrong. I've never been convinced that Corbyn was a closet leaver, but I am sure that he's openly indifferent. Let's hope whatever outcome it is plays well to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Sounds like some intensive behind the scenes work is going on from Labour high command though... Not convinced Remain will win this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  I guess that's what we want, but I don't really think his neutral stance was necessarily wrong. I've never been convinced that Corbyn was a closet leaver, but I am sure that he's openly indifferent. Let's hope whatever outcome it is plays well to the public. Remain is undoubtedly Labour’s best chance of electoral success though. They’ll haemorrhage votes to the Lib Dems unless they make that move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Corbyn: I will abide by whatever conference decides (after I've fully stitched up that decision). The bloke is a fucking disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44396 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Remain is undoubtedly Labour’s best chance of electoral success though. They’ll haemorrhage votes to the Lib Dems unless they make that move.  Aye. This is so blindingly obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 We've all been saying that for months now, but there is a bigger issue at hand here - if all our dreams come true and Labour sweep into power, cancel Brexit, and lead us into the sunlit uplands of a mixed economy - we will have a very pissed off 50% of the country who will feel that their democratic vote has just been rode over roughshod. Â Corbyn's position up until now had been a healing one - if we go full Remain, as much as I've wanted Labour to do this for months now, what will that mean in practice? They go for straight revoke? Â If they were going to do this, it had to be done a year ago. Now it feels too late and I'm tempted to say is only going to cause more confusion in the Remain side. I could see a way for Remain to come out on top with the lay of the land before - I mean the Lib Dems already had the revoke crowd covered, and Labour's muddled position was probably covering a few Brexiters. All I can see here is us potentially cutting away a slice of the public nearer to the leave side and hoping that there is enough to take back from the LDs for an outright Labour victory... Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I'm all for the bringing the country together view but that needs power and he's killing the chance of that imo.  To be honest I can see this causing a leadership challenge which I'm okay with as long as it isn't an out and out centrist who prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 It's risky. The more I think about it, the more it narrows the vote pool of people whose votes can be used to theoretically win a remain situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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