Europe --- In or Out

[zerosum 234]

SM kind of yeah.. CU I fucking thought I did lol.. apparently not. 

[ewerk 30266]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

Out of interest, can anyone truthfully say they were aware of what the CU and SM were before this referendum, when they voted, and even now? 

ME! ME! ME!

Then again I did do a module on the politics of the EU at uni.

[Rayvin 5183]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

Out of interest, can anyone truthfully say they were aware of what the CU and SM were before this referendum, when they voted, and even now? 

 

Single Market yes. Everything else no.

[ewerk 30266]

Johnson's own brother has resigned.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

[ewerk 30266]

Also Luciana Berger has gone on a free transfer to the Lib Dems.

[zerosum 234]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

ME! ME! ME!

Then again I did do a module on the politics of the EU at uni.

 

Thats another thing. You are all far more intelligent (or should I say knowledgeable? lol) than the majority of voters. Including me! I am one of the 90% who just go with face value a lot of times. I never did EU at Uni haha.. didn’t even go to Uni.

 

That majority needs won over by a charismatic leader who the people can relate to or believe 

[Renton 21311]

2 minutes ago, zerosum said:

SM kind of yeah.. CU I fucking thought I did lol.. apparently not. 

 

So the SM is a regulatory union allowing frictionless trade across the EU28 and allows for the free movement of goods, services, capital and people across the EEA. Effectively it makes the rest of Europe our domestic market, expanding our customer base ten fold.

 

It's a work of genius imo. What don't you like about it? Sorry,  as ttlhe only leaver here nowadays I'm just curious. 

 

The CU is much less important, although problematic for Ireland. 

[zerosum 234]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

So the SM is a regulatory union allowing frictionless trade across the EU28 and allows for the free movement of goods, services, capital and people across the EEA. Effectively it makes the rest of Europe our domestic market, expanding our customer base ten fold.

 

It's a work of genius imo. What don't you like about it? Sorry,  as ttlhe only leaver here nowadays I'm just curious. 

 

The CU is much less important, although problematic for Ireland. 

 

I said kind of .. and forgive me but I can’t be arsed going through all that again with my own reasons for ticking the leave box. lol. Was like poking a stick in a wasp nest last time around.

Edited September 5, 2019 by zerosum

[wykikitoon 19893]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Also Luciana Berger has gone on a free transfer to the Lib Dems.

Like rats jumping off a sinking ship

[Renton 21311]

2 minutes ago, zerosum said:

 

Thats another thing. You are all far more intelligent (or should I say knowledgeable? lol) than the majority of voters. Including me! I am one of the 90% who just go with face value a lot of times. I never did EU at Uni haha.. didn’t even go to Uni.

 

That majority needs won over by a charismatic leader who the people can relate to or believe 

 

Agree, why the fuck should people know this stuff unless it interests them or it is important for their job. Most MPs are also ignorant. Having a referendum on it was madness. 

[ewerk 30266]

2 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Like rats jumping off a sinking ship

There's that anti-semitism she was complaining about.

[ewerk 30266]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Agree, why the fuck should people know this stuff unless it interests them or it is important for their job. Most MPs are also ignorant. Having a referendum on it was madness. 

Aye, Nadine Dorries didn't have a clue what the customs union was until after the vote. Didn't stop her campaigning for leave.

[Renton 21311]

Jo Johnson stepping down now. 

[Sonatine 11309]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

Jo Johnson stepping down now. 

 

Probably going back to the snooker full time

[Dr Gloom 21813]

stepping down to spend less time with family 

[Rayvin 5183]

In the Brexit committee Michael Gove has just finished answering a series of questions about how Dover would cope with lorry arrivals in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Hilary Benn, the committee chair, did not sound hugely reassured, and he concluded by asking Gove to admit that no one actually knows what will happen in the event of no deal. Gove did not contest this, but replied:

The future is known only to the Almighty.

Benn said unfortunately the Almighty would not be appearing as a witness.

[Rayvin 5183]

Apparently there will be another vote on an early GE on Monday. The thinking on this is that the Benn Amendment will have become law. This means, IMO, that the Tories think Corbyn has come on strong enough in talking about voting for a GE once Benn as royal assent, that he's unlikely to back down. It would also explain why the filibustering in the Lords suddenly stopped.

 

Now, this is a tough one. It does on the one hand put all the power in the hands of Corbyn - and the Tories might have blown their load over him being a 'coward' too soon. He could very well turn around on Monday and say that Labour won't vote for it, citing mistrust in the government to follow the letter of the law. In which case, the Tories are completely outflanked in parliament. However, the impact with the public may be less clear - I could see people taking a very dim view of Corbyn backing down "a second time".

 

So, I think Labour will indeed vote for a GE on Monday.

[ewerk 30266]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Apparently there will be another vote on an early GE on Monday. The thinking on this is that the Benn Amendment will have become law. This means, IMO, that the Tories think Corbyn has come on strong enough in talking about voting for a GE once Benn as royal assent, that he's unlikely to back down. It would also explain why the filibustering in the Lords suddenly stopped.

 

Now, this is a tough one. It does on the one hand put all the power in the hands of Corbyn - and the Tories might have blown their load over him being a 'coward' too soon. He could very well turn around on Monday and say that Labour won't vote for it, citing mistrust in the government to follow the letter of the law. In which case, the Tories are completely outflanked in parliament. However, the impact with the public may be less clear - I could see people taking a very dim view of Corbyn backing down "a second time".

 

So, I think Labour will indeed vote for a GE on Monday.

It could be an incredibly foolish thing to do. If they want an election then they need to have the election date written into law. I’m not sure if a VONC can be amended?

[Rayvin 5183]

I agree, I don't want them to do it. But I think that's the direction we're heading. Corbyn can now claim the Tories are forcing his hand in his meetings with the PLP.

[NJS 4371]

It's a "best for the country moment" imo - they have to make sure October 31st passes then embrace it 100%.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

The thing is with a general election who will be even voting for? The parties are so divided within themselves on nearly every issue there isn't one semblance of a credible party left. 

[Rayvin 5183]

Tories/Brexit Party/UKIP - No Deal

 

Labour/Lib Dems/Greens/Everyone Else - 2nd Referendum based on a choice between May's Deal, No Deal, and Remain

[NJS 4371]

Just now, Rayvin said:

Tories/Brexit Party/UKIP - No Deal

 

Labour/Lib Dems/Greens/Everyone Else - 2nd Referendum based on a choice between May's Deal, No Deal, and Remain

Has anyone asked the LDs or others what they want the other option(s) to be on the ballot and what they'd do if leave won?

I still think it would be closer than assumed after another campaign because I cant's see any lessons learned

[Rayvin 5183]

3 minutes ago, NJS said:

Has anyone asked the LDs or others what they want the other option(s) to be on the ballot and what they'd do if leave won?

I still think it would be closer than assumed after another campaign because I cant's see any lessons learned

 

Don't think that debate has happened. No Deal might have a hard time getting on there if Parliament stays as it is. I think that's risky though as No Deal is clearly beatable.

[Gemmill 44397]

It's absolutely ridiculous that Labour MPs are having to try and pressure Corbyn into making the right decision here. The bloke is fucking useless. If it's an election before the end of October, Johnson has a higher chance of winning it and the consequences for the country would be dire. You don't give him that opportunity. It's beyond straightforward. 

 

The tories are gonna have plenty to say about Corbyn during the election campaign. He doesn't need to worry about what they say about him not giving them the election pre October.