Europe --- In or Out

[Isegrim 9733]

I have to say you have got some brilliant pythonesque comedy running on BBC Parliament tonight.

[Rayvin 5176]

24 minutes ago, ewerk said:

It’s already dead.

 

Yeah but the Party loyalists can't admit that yet. The non-rebel, non-ERG Tories don't get a free vote on this until May's deal is finished forever.

 

What seems very apparent, is that PV2 is tantalisingly close. I notice 17 Labour MPs abstained on it, which means we need another 5 to swing.

 

The customs union will get a majority post MV3 although as Renton says, it's not a good option. It's been tabled just to make sure that something gets through. Next best is Labour's deal, although I doubt many Tories will swing for that.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21812]

32 minutes ago, Alex said:

Sooner or later you’ll get one of these right 

Just like the Brexit negotiatons, CT’s quest to get a solitary prediction right seems doomed to continue until the end of time 

[Christmas Tree 4689]

6 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Just like the Brexit negotiatons, CT’s quest to get a solitary prediction right seems doomed to continue until the end of time 

 

Excuse me

 

I said last Friday that May would resign within 7 days. Only an extremely mean spirited person wouldn’t give me that one.

[ewerk 30266]

7 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Excuse me

 

I said last Friday that May would resign within 7 days. Only an extremely mean spirited person wouldn’t give me that one.

Except she hasn’t resigned. It’s pretty much the easiest thing one can do and she’s even managed to fuck that up. As The Poke said last night, she’s thrown herself under the bus and missed.

[Alex 34846]

7 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Excuse me

 

I said last Friday that May would resign within 7 days. Only an extremely mean spirited person wouldn’t give me that one.

Loses its impact when it’s a weekly prediction 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

51 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Except she hasn’t resigned. It’s pretty much the easiest thing one can do and she’s even managed to fuck that up. As The Poke said last night, she’s thrown herself under the bus and missed.

 

I honestly don't think anything she has done has ever been successful, literally anything. EVER. Her husband must do all of the cooking as I doubt she can even open the fridge.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex 34846]

Occasionally you see (usually old) people on telly saying she’s doing an amazing job.   There was even one on the news yesterday. While I recognise the BBC’s abysmal attempts at balance usually requires one of each viewpoint (however minority that view is) what the fuck are these people comparing her to? 

Actually if Cameron wasn’t such a spineless coward and hung around I think he’d have used the changing mood of the country, the questionable practices of the Leave campaign and the lack of consensus in Parliament to find a sensible way forward. Probably in the form of a second referendum. That’s not meant to be praise, just recognising that even that useless cunt would be better than May. 

[ewerk 30266]

31 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

 

I honestly don't think anything she has done has ever been successful, literally anything. EVER. Her husband must do all of the cooking as I doubt she can even open the fridge.

And she only got the top job because two of her rivals fucked each other over and the other one fucked up massively and had to withdraw. 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

Every possible outcome voted against ffs  people like to say “oh, this shouldn’t have been left in the hands of the public” Well, it definitely can’t be left in the hands of these complete fucking chancers.

[Monkeys Fist 42064]

4 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Every possible outcome voted against ffs  people like to say “oh, this shouldn’t have been left in the hands of the public” Well, it definitely can’t be left in the hands of these complete fucking chancers.

Its almost like the whole thing is a terrible idea and should never have been put to referendum. 

 

How Moonface Pigfucker has got away with it, relatively scot-free, is a source of amazement to me. 

[Gemmill 44386]

To be fair we know more from a few hours of debate and voting about Parliament's views than we've discovered in the last 3 years. Thanks to May shutting down debate on anything but her personal holocaust of a deal. 

 

It's looking like May's deal or a Customs Union with a confirmatory referendum attached. Outside chance of May getting her deal through standalone. 

 

If people actually engage on Monday and they structure the voting correctly there could still be a path to a majority. 

[Gemmill 44386]

This is great. 

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/03/27/the-obscene-moral-spectacle-of-theresa-may-s-resignation

[Rayvin 5176]

1 minute ago, Gemmill said:

To be fair we know more from a few hours of debate and voting about Parliament's views than we've discovered in the last 3 years. Thanks to May shutting down debate on anything but her personal holocaust of a deal. 

 

It's looking like May's deal or a Customs Union with a confirmatory referendum attached. Outside chance of May getting her deal through standalone. 

 

If people actually engage on Monday and they structure the voting correctly there could still be a path to a majority. 

 

The customs union is hardly better than May's deal though, is it not? Still huge loss of individual rights.

[ewerk 30266]

Worth noting that Labours Ronnie Campbell, Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey all voted in favour of no deal last night. Pathetic from all of them.

[Rayvin 5176]

Some pundits saying that if May can't get her deal through, we're heading for a really long delay to Brexit. The alternative options won't be countenanced by May and we'll end up with a GE.

 

That raises an interesting question. Who the fuck do we vote for?

 

[Gemmill 44386]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The customs union is hardly better than May's deal though, is it not? Still huge loss of individual rights.

 

I'm not arguing the merits of the option, just that we're closer to having one. It'll have a referendum attached though, I reckon, and at that point it'll get binned. 

[ewerk 30266]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Some pundits saying that if May can't get her deal through, we're heading for a really long delay to Brexit. The alternative options won't be countenanced by May and we'll end up with a GE.

 

That raises an interesting question. Who the fuck do we vote for?

 

T.I.G.! T.I.G.! T.I.G.!

[Gemmill 44386]

10 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Worth noting that Labours Ronnie Campbell, Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey all voted in favour of no deal last night. Pathetic from all of them.

 

Aye my MP abstained on the referendum and revocation. So SHE can fuck off. 

[Rayvin 5176]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

T.I.G.! T.I.G.! T.I.G.!

 

Not exactly catchy is it?

 

Also, will they even have enough people to put candidates in all constituencies?

 

I can say now, unequivocally, that my final democratic vote will go to whoever intends to deliver the least hard Brexit, weighted against their strategic chance of success.

[ewerk 30266]

If there's a snap election then I doubt they'll field candidates outside of their existing MPs. They've also little chance of making an electoral impact this time around IMO. It's either them or Lib Dems I guess.

[Renton 21300]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

I'm not arguing the merits of the option, just that we're closer to having one. It'll have a referendum attached though, I reckon, and at that point it'll get binned. 

 

I'm going to make an opinion and a prediction. Most MPs don't understand what the CU is, they can't get their heads around the difference between the CU and the SM. When they finally realise that this option kills FOM, doesn't include any social chapter, doesn't solve trade friction substantively, and doesn't solve NI, we'll be back to square one. It's basically a shit FTA where we lose any control over our other trading relationships.

 

This underlines a more important fact, that our MPs are grossly uninformed and incompetent. I know that's obvious, but honestly, I don't think they are capable of getting us out this mess. Ever. 

[Meenzer 15404]

The SNP should stand everywhere. Would be an interesting experiment.

[Rayvin 5176]

Hm. I could actually get behind Labour's plan, I just don't know if I trust them to stick to it.

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, Renton said:

 

I'm going to make an opinion and a prediction. Most MPs don't understand what the CU is, they can't get their heads around the difference between the CU and the SM. When they finally realise that this option kills FOM, doesn't include any social chapter, doesn't solve trade friction substantively, and doesn't solve NI, we'll be back to square one. It's basically a shit FTA where we lose any control over our other trading relationships.

 

This underlines a more important fact, that our MPs are grossly uninformed and incompetent. I know that's obvious, but honestly, I don't think they are capable of getting us out this mess. Ever. 

 

I dunno man, I watched the debate in HOC yesterday and each option was presented to MPs, with questions from the room to clarify certain points. Ken Clarke presented this one and he was pretty thorough.

 

I think they know what they're voting for at this point, but a customs union does appear to have the potential to be politically worse than May's deal, even if aligning our standards to the EU would mean we can at least... avoid US chicken? Or am I wrong about that?