Europe --- In or Out

[Gemmill 44864]

Honestly, I'd rather we stayed in, but everyone just needs to chill the fuck out and see what happens. Predicting the end of times isn't doing anything but spoiling your own day.

 

A lot of turkeys have voted for Christmas. They did it in the last two general elections and they've done it again now. Sooner or later you've just got to say well fuck you, enjoy your Christmas and get on with your own life.

[Happy Face 29]

Surely we'd need a GE earlier than planned, even if Johnson gets in?

 

Although once Scotland goes (and it will) there'll be no escape...

Hmmmm, might look at a move north of the border before it happens.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

britain is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. sterling has has fallen so far that france has overtaken us

[Renton 21621]

britain is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. sterling has has fallen so far that france has overtaken us

Allez le bleu.

[Meenzer 15525]

A lot of turkeys have voted for Christmas. They did it in the last two general elections and they've done it again now. Sooner or later you've just got to say well fuck you, enjoy your Christmas and get on with your own life.

 

I'm off to Wales for the weekend and I will be scrutinising everyone I encounter to judge whether they voted in or out.

[Renton 21621]

Honestly, I'd rather we stayed in, but everyone just needs to chill the fuck out and see what happens. Predicting the end of times isn't doing anything but spoiling your own day.

 

A lot of turkeys have voted for Christmas. They did it in the last two general elections and they've done it again now. Sooner or later you've just got to say well fuck you, enjoy your Christmas and get on with your own life.

Thing is Gemmill, I think this is a lot more serious than a GE result, where in general people actually do vote in self interest even if they don't get what they want. I'm not bothered about the idiot Nissan worker who voted leave. I am massively bothered by the implications of this referendum on the future prosperity, stability, and direction of this country. I'm massively bothered by its impact on this region in particular. Us and Northern Ireland are going to worst affected, I expect Scotland to leave. It's not looking good.

 

And then of course having to put up with the smug grin of Farage.....

[ChezGiven 0]

britain is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. sterling has has fallen so far that france has overtaken us

 

Yay.

 

Not having a good day at all.

[Renton 21621]

 

I'm off to Wales for the weekend and I will be scrutinising everyone I encounter to judge whether they voted in or out.

I've been giving OAPs at the hospital hacky looks.

[Alex 35079]

britain is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. sterling has has fallen so far that france has overtaken us

First thing my lass said to me this morning when I told her the result was: "Do you fancy moving to Scotland?"

With hindsight I should've asked if she wanted to come to. She was (at least) half serious though. Not sure they're that well set up to go it alone like, especially given a lot of their projected spending was based on a higher price for crude oil I think. In any case they're gone, it's just a case of when not if the UK splits now.

I feel canny depressed about the whole thing. There's a lot wrong with the EU but I don't see a single benefit to leaving. I think the remainder of the UK might lurch to the right. I also think there could be terrible repurcussions for Northern Ireland as there's a genuine reason why Sinn Fein et al can agrue for a referendum now but the Loyalist community would never agree to it. Really hope I'm wrong on that one too.

Also think Cameron is a complete coward for walking away from this mess he created with his political brinkmanship in the run up to the last election. All based on his assumption he wasn't going to win a majority I feel.

What a fucking mess all round

[Rayvin 5220]

britain is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. sterling has has fallen so far that france has overtaken us

Is that true? WHere did you read that, I can't see it?

[Rayvin 5220]

First thing my lass said to me this morning when I told her the result was: "Do you fancy moving to Scotland?"

With hindsight I should've asked if she wanted to come to. She was (at least) half serious though. Not sure they're that well set up to go it alone like, especially given a lot of their projected spending was based on a higher price for crude oil I think. In any case they're gone, it's just a case of when not if the UK splits now.

I feel canny depressed about the whole thing. There's a lot wrong with the EU but I don't see a single benefit to leaving. I think the remainder of the UK might lurch to the right. I also think there could be terrible repurcussions for Northern Ireland as there's a genuine reason why Sinn Fein et al can agrue for a referendum now but the Loyalist community would never agree to it. Really hope I'm wrong on that one too.

Also think Cameron is a complete coward for walking away from this mess he created with his political brinkmanship in the run up to the last election. All based on his assumption he wasn't going to win a majority I feel.

What a fucking mess all round

 

They aren't but if enough of us went (unlikely) then they'd be able to start moving forward. A young, educated and driven workforce with socially liberal values would be welcomed, I think.

[Holden McGroin 6583]

First thing my lass said to me this morning when I told her the result was: "Do you fancy moving to Scotland?"

With hindsight I should've asked if she wanted to come to. She was (at least) half serious though. Not sure they're that well set up to go it alone like, especially given a lot of their projected spending was based on a higher price for crude oil I think. In any case they're gone, it's just a case of when not if the UK splits now.

I feel canny depressed about the whole thing. There's a lot wrong with the EU but I don't see a single benefit to leaving. I think the remainder of the UK might lurch to the right. I also think there could be terrible repurcussions for Northern Ireland as there's a genuine reason why Sinn Fein et al can agrue for a referendum now but the Loyalist community would never agree to it. Really hope I'm wrong on that one too.

Also think Cameron is a complete coward for walking away from this mess he created with his political brinkmanship in the run up to the last election. All based on his assumption he wasn't going to win a majority I feel.

What a fucking mess all round

 

Thats spot on. There is not one good reason to leave the EU. The Brexiters have played on the Xenephobes by using a false immigration rhetoric. Plus that bullshit about the money going to the NHS. Farage said that was a "mistake" this morning. No. it was a bare faced lie.

[Meenzer 15525]

Also think Cameron is a complete coward for walking away from this mess he created with his political brinkmanship in the run up to the last election. All based on his assumption he wasn't going to win a majority I feel.

 

Which essentially means this is all the Lib Dems' fault for buckling on tuition fees.

 

[Dr Gloom 21915]

from the Economist

 

David Cameron quits Downing Street with a ruined legacy

 

“THE British people have voted to leave the European Union and their will must be respected.” With these words David Cameron acknowledged an outcome that he never believed would materialise: the country had voted for Brexit. His lip quivering and his wife at his side, he proceeded to announce that he would be stepping down: staying on as a caretaker while his party holds a leadership contest to be concluded by the time of its conference in October. No candidates have put their names forward, but it is to be expected that Boris Johnson and Theresa May, and probably others, will throw their hats into the ring.

 

The move, so hard to imagine just hours earlier, had become nigh-on inevitable as, at around 5am, the prime minister’s defeat in the referendum was confirmed. Mr Cameron has spent the past months touring the country telling voters that a Brexit would be disastrous. He would not have wanted to stay on and make the disaster a reality. And in any case his mostly anti-EU members would not have tolerated him. He had to go.

 

The resignation speech, when it came, was an emotional attempt to remind the world of the best of his six-year premiership: with nods to his one-nation reforms, an emphasis on the importance of stability in the coming months and a patriotic peroration about “this great country”. It was a touching bid to leave office with some scraps of dignity and honour.

 

It was ineffectual. With stockmarkets around Europe crashing, recriminations whizzing through the ether and the full weight of Britain’s terrible decision to leave the EU looming over them, his achievements in office seemed, however unfairly, puny.

 

Most unedifying was his attempt to imbue the referendum result, easily one of the most ill-conceived and profoundly damaging political events of Britain’s post-war history, with some nobility. It had been a great democratic exercise, the prime minister told the crowds. It had been important to answer such a pressing question. The people had spoken.

 

To put it kindly, this was a fantasy. Mr Cameron took the reckless decision to pledge to hold a vote (against the better wisdom of George Osborne, the chancellor, who is also bound to go) back in 2013. He had not needed to. The public was certainly not clamouring for one. His motive was to placate his cranky backbenchers. His consideration given to the risks and realities of such a promise was lacking. His understanding of the “renegotiation” of Britain's EU membership, on which he rested his strategy, was cursory at best.

The prime minister’s gamble was underwritten by the assurance that he could handle it, that his powers of persuasion and credibility (which, to be fair, are considerable) would save the day. In the months and years after his 2013 speech, he wasted opportunity after opportunity to roll the pitch for the referendum; to build, over time, a durable case to stay in the EU. Under-advised and overconfident, he turned the renegotiation from an asset to a stick with which Brexiteers could beat him. His referendum campaign, for all its flashes of skill and conviction, was too little, too late. The whole exercise was a spectacularly foolhardy act of overreach. The unanticipated outcome will be a Britain poorer, more isolated, less influential and more divided.

 

A time will come for reflection on the good in Mr Cameron’s leadership of the Conservative Party and his premiership, on his fundamentally correct vision for a one-nation Tory party in possession of the centre ground. But it will surely be dwarfed by this giant, nation-changing misstep, one guaranteed to scar the country for decades and diminish his place in the history books. He leaves office in ignominy

[Happy Face 29]

Boiling my piss that a BBC reporter keeps saying the £ "literally" fell off a cliff.

 

It's worse than the result

 

[ewerk 30602]

 

Which essentially means this is all the Lib Dems' fault for buckling on tuition fees.

 

 

It was Tim Farron's rap wot lost it.

[Alex 35079]

from the Economist

 

David Cameron quits Downing Street with a ruined legacy

 

“THE British people have voted to leave the European Union and their will must be respected.” With these words David Cameron acknowledged an outcome that he never believed would materialise: the country had voted for Brexit. His lip quivering and his wife at his side, he proceeded to announce that he would be stepping down: staying on as a caretaker while his party holds a leadership contest to be concluded by the time of its conference in October. No candidates have put their names forward, but it is to be expected that Boris Johnson and Theresa May, and probably others, will throw their hats into the ring.

 

The move, so hard to imagine just hours earlier, had become nigh-on inevitable as, at around 5am, the prime minister’s defeat in the referendum was confirmed. Mr Cameron has spent the past months touring the country telling voters that a Brexit would be disastrous. He would not have wanted to stay on and make the disaster a reality. And in any case his mostly anti-EU members would not have tolerated him. He had to go.

 

The resignation speech, when it came, was an emotional attempt to remind the world of the best of his six-year premiership: with nods to his one-nation reforms, an emphasis on the importance of stability in the coming months and a patriotic peroration about “this great country”. It was a touching bid to leave office with some scraps of dignity and honour.

 

It was ineffectual. With stockmarkets around Europe crashing, recriminations whizzing through the ether and the full weight of Britain’s terrible decision to leave the EU looming over them, his achievements in office seemed, however unfairly, puny.

 

Most unedifying was his attempt to imbue the referendum result, easily one of the most ill-conceived and profoundly damaging political events of Britain’s post-war history, with some nobility. It had been a great democratic exercise, the prime minister told the crowds. It had been important to answer such a pressing question. The people had spoken.

 

To put it kindly, this was a fantasy. Mr Cameron took the reckless decision to pledge to hold a vote (against the better wisdom of George Osborne, the chancellor, who is also bound to go) back in 2013. He had not needed to. The public was certainly not clamouring for one. His motive was to placate his cranky backbenchers. His consideration given to the risks and realities of such a promise was lacking. His understanding of the “renegotiation” of Britain's EU membership, on which he rested his strategy, was cursory at best.

The prime minister’s gamble was underwritten by the assurance that he could handle it, that his powers of persuasion and credibility (which, to be fair, are considerable) would save the day. In the months and years after his 2013 speech, he wasted opportunity after opportunity to roll the pitch for the referendum; to build, over time, a durable case to stay in the EU. Under-advised and overconfident, he turned the renegotiation from an asset to a stick with which Brexiteers could beat him. His referendum campaign, for all its flashes of skill and conviction, was too little, too late. The whole exercise was a spectacularly foolhardy act of overreach. The unanticipated outcome will be a Britain poorer, more isolated, less influential and more divided.

 

A time will come for reflection on the good in Mr Cameron’s leadership of the Conservative Party and his premiership, on his fundamentally correct vision for a one-nation Tory party in possession of the centre ground. But it will surely be dwarfed by this giant, nation-changing misstep, one guaranteed to scar the country for decades and diminish his place in the history books. He leaves office in ignominy

It wasn't just about the backbenchers. It was more about UKIP. At the time it was announced a lot of the really detailed voting pattern and polling analysis suggested that there was going to be a hung Parliament and that the Tories weren't going to win because too much of their vote was defecting to UKIP. As it turned out, this wasn't the case and it probably hurt Labour more. He either thought that he couldn't win but, if he did, it would've meant UKIP would've routed so the result was a forgone conclusion.

[Gemmill 44864]

Britain's worst PM ever?

[Andrew 4748]

There's a lass I work with from the EU, someone I count as a friend, who is on an EU funded fertility clinical trial who is now sure she will have to leave the country she has made her home if she ever wants a child.

Today is fucking garbage.

[Renton 21621]

 

Which essentially means this is all the Lib Dems' fault for buckling on tuition fees.

 

That's not it. The butterfly effect goes like this:

Brown makes 'bigot' comment before 2010 election.

Brown fails to sin enough seats to form coalition with Lib Dems.

Labour elect the wrong Miliband.

The wrong Miliband loses the election outright to Cameron, ensuring the referendum goes ahead.

Labour elect the eurosceptic Corbyn.

Corbyn's feeble campaign fails to persuade or motivate labour voters in the referendum.

We're out of Europe!

 

A certain poetic justice, leading back to Brown.

[ewerk 30602]

 

I feel canny depressed about the whole thing. There's a lot wrong with the EU but I don't see a single benefit to leaving. I think the remainder of the UK might lurch to the right. I also think there could be terrible repurcussions for Northern Ireland as there's a genuine reason why Sinn Fein et al can agrue for a referendum now but the Loyalist community would never agree to it. Really hope I'm wrong on that one too.

 

We'll not get the referendum. Even if we did, the Republic can't afford to take us on.

 

My concern is more economic. If the global companies that are already here can move 50 miles down the road to gain access to the European market then they will. And bad economic times will lead to a rise in terrorism here.

[Alex 35079]

There's a lass I work with from the EU, someone I count as a friend, who is on an EU funded fertility clinical trial who is now sure she will have to leave the country she has made her home if she ever wants a child.

 

Today is fucking garbage.

Get the Fish to fertilise her

[Rayvin 5220]

Britain's worst PM ever?

 

I'd say so.

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Rayvin

[acrossthepond 877]

Absolute disaster. "Independence Day" might mean the end of two unions, the ones on either side of the English Channel. Reckon Scotland will go for sure now, as well they should. But it'll all be OK, because we'll keep the fucking Poles out and we'll hang on to that 350m that goes to those horrible overlords in Brussels each year, which now we can spend on...er, hang on, not the NHS...or public education..., erm, uh, England for the English! Fucking idiots.

[Gemmill 44864]

CT is driving his taxi in a Frank Maloney Union Jack suit today.