Europe --- In or Out

[Gemmill 44365]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That tweet from Jenkins is gibberish. It's not the EU being inhumane, its the completely predictable consequence of becoming a third country and removing ourselves from the EMA. Not to mention Euratom, EASA and a host of other regulatory agencies. All because we don't want to be subject to jurisdiction from the ECJ (although nobody has yet been able to tell me why). 

 

"And why would the EU want to impoverish their own pharma sector by stopping theirexports to the EU?" What the fuck does this actually even mean? I'm beginning to think Leavers are a bit dim. 

 

"Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?"

[ewerk 30259]

 

So only 14% think we're going to get a good deal yet 40% are against a vote on that deal. 

[Dr Gloom 21812]

The great British moron 

[Renton 21293]

42 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

So only 14% think we're going to get a good deal yet 40% are against a vote on that deal. 

Still, that's the first time I've seen a clear majority for a people's referendum. By October 20th, when there will be a march in Newcastle btw, the reality of no deal will be apparent even to the CT's of this World. By then the pressure for a new referendum may be overwhelming and in fact might be the government's best way out this mess. After all, Farage supports it. 

 

I think the ERG might have overplayed their hand. Even the Sunday Times is reporting negative Brexit stories now, and Dacre is stepping down. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Renton

[Alex 34838]

I don't have any faith in another referendum. For all that's been revealed about the Leave campaign recently they'll ratchet it up next time round and I think people will believe them again. I really hope I'm wrong but I could see 'No Deal' winning in a 3 way race.

[ewerk 30259]

Possibly but it's pretty much our only chance of getting out of this mess. The lies from the referendum won't wash now, the idea that we'd get a 'cracking deal' from the EU will have been shown to be nonsense. The only thing they can cling to is that there are loads of cracking deals to be done with as yet unnamed countries.

[Renton 21293]

10 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don't have any faith in another referendum. For all that's been revealed about the Leave campaign recently they'll ratchet it up next time round and I think people will believe them again. I really hope I'm wrong but I could see 'No Deal' winning in a 3 way race.

 

In a 3 way referendum, remain would win easily imo. If it's remain or no deal, and the government has published what the latter entails, I would hope remain would win comfortably. I know gammons will remain gammons, but there will be 1.6 million more young people eligible for the vote, and probably a million less old people. That alone nullifies the margin. What would the previously undecided do? My guess is they will want an end to this and vote remain.

 

Personally, I want us to go down the Norway plus option now, it technically fulfils the last referendum and would cause the least social unrest imo. Most people will accept it. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Renton

[Meenzer 15401]

13 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don't have any faith in another referendum. For all that's been revealed about the Leave campaign recently they'll ratchet it up next time round and I think people will believe them again. I really hope I'm wrong but I could see 'No Deal' winning in a 3 way race.

 

At least if it did - and I can't believe I'm saying this, but - there'd be considerably more of a mandate for no deal, albeit one demonstrably based on lies, racism and bluster, than there is now. If that really is what enough people want to believe, if that really is how they tick, if they really are that willing to ignore the facts of the matter, then let them do so and face the consequences. The closer you get to an actual mandate for saying "we don't want anything from the EU", the less the absolute shysters involved in executing those actions can blame any failure on the EU not being accommodating enough.

[Renton 21293]

3 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

At least if it did - and I can't believe I'm saying this, but - there'd be considerably more of a mandate for no deal, albeit one demonstrably based on lies, racism and bluster, than there is now. If that really is what enough people want to believe, if that really is how they tick, if they really are that willing to ignore the facts of the matter, then let them do so and face the consequences. The closer you get to an actual mandate for saying "we don't want anything from the EU", the less the absolute shysters involved in executing those actions can blame any failure on the EU not being accommodating enough.

Very good point. 

[Alex 34838]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

In a 3 way referendum, remain would win easily imo. If it's remain or no deal, and the government has published what the latter entails, I would hope remain would win comfortably. I know gammons will remain gammons, but there will be 1.6 million more young people eligible for the vote, and probably a million less old people. That alone nullifies the margin. What would the previously undecided do? My guess is they will want an end to this and vote remain.

 

Personally, I want us to go down the Norway plus option now, it technically fulfils the last referendum and would cause the least social unrest imo. Most people will accept it. 

Actually, thinking about it from a tactical pov, a 3 way vote probably gives remain the best chance of victory.

[Renton 21293]

7 minutes ago, Alex said:

Actually, thinking about it from a tactical pov, a 3 way vote probably gives remain the best chance of victory.

Have to get a deal first, which seems unlikely. Also time is running out now so any referendum would probably need A50 extension. Still unlikely to happen but increasingly looking more so imo. 

 

Problem with the referendum route for me is civil unrest with either result. Plus I'd probably shit myself on election night. 

[Renton 21293]

Btw, in a 3 way referendum, sky polled:

Remain 48%

No deal 27%

Government deal 13%

 

Clearly shows leaving is no longer the will of the people. 

[Howmanheyman 32719]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

Btw, in a 3 way referendum, sky polled:

Remain 48%

No deal 27%

Government deal 13%

 

Clearly shows leaving is no longer the will of the people. 

TRAITOR!!!!

[Dr Gloom 21812]

crush the saboteurs!

[adios 717]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

The great British moron 

Bit harsh on @ewerk like.

[ewerk 30259]

How dare he call me British.

[Rayvin 5176]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

Btw, in a 3 way referendum, sky polled:

Remain 48%

No deal 27%

Government deal 13%

 

Clearly shows leaving is no longer the will of the people. 

 

How in fuck is 'No Deal' polling at 27%. It shouldn't be polling at half a fucking percent, let alone 27.

[Rayvin 5176]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

Have to get a deal first, which seems unlikely. Also time is running out now so any referendum would probably need A50 extension. Still unlikely to happen but increasingly looking more so imo. 

 

Problem with the referendum route for me is civil unrest with either result. Plus I'd probably shit myself on election night. 

 

You really think civil unrest is a possibility? On what basis?

 

If we have another referendum and the vote is Remain, what can the Leavers actually point to? The only possible point they could make is that a lot of people are now better informed and that this democratic result overturns one where we had less information about the outcomes, and fewer people understood any of the implications at all. How do you logically build up support for such a stupid contention?

[Meenzer 15401]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

You really think civil unrest is a possibility? On what basis?

 

If we have another referendum and the vote is Remain, what can the Leavers actually point to? The only possible point they could make is that a lot of people are now better informed and that this democratic result overturns one where we had less information about the outcomes, and fewer people understood any of the implications at all. How do you logically build up support for such a stupid contention?

 

If you're a Leaver, you argue that if the referendum can be re-run once, it can be re-run again.

 

Best of three.  

[Rayvin 5176]

 

In truth that's a possible come back, but I think the Leavers would need to demonstrate that actually, enough new information has been brought to light that a re-run is needed. I've no idea how they would do that at all. Maybe if another country exits the EU and survives?

[Christmas Tree 4686]

Fuck me

 

Project fear 2.0 up and running and sending @Renton to his bunker.

 

Civil unrest

Troops on the street

food shortages

Super gonorrhoea 

 

Have we had word yet that BMW’s, Audi’s and champagne will run out.

 

Have a fucking word with yourselves you big Jessie’. You’ve all got Stockholm syndrome

 

 

[Renton 21293]

31 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

How do you logically build up support for such a stupid contention?

 

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the gammons. See above.

[Alex 34838]

When's he ever been wrong about anything?

[ewerk 30259]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

food shortages

This isn't project fear, it's government policy.

[Renton 21293]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Fuck me

 

Project fear 2.0 up and running and sending @Renton to his bunker.

 

Civil unrest

Troops on the street

food shortages

Super gonorrhoea 

 

Have we had word yet that BMW’s, Audi’s and champagne will run out.

 

Have a fucking word with yourselves you big Jessie’. You’ve all got Stockholm syndrome

 

 

 

Why is the staunch leaver Dominic Raab saying this? If this is project fear 2.0, why is it coming from the eurosceptics, reported in eurosceptic papers? 

 

I've said for months now that the choice is binary, no deal or bino/remain. I'm being proven right. You on the other hand predicted 2 weeks ago May's white paper was the right solution. You've been proven wrong. 

 

Glad you don't think there will be civil unrest if this shit storm is reversed though. I had guessed most you gammons can't get up from your keyboards. However, I think there is now a sizeable right wing racist and  potentially violent section in society who might react differently.