Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4711]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

@Christmas Tree , have you thought of leaving Toontastic and joining a group of people more on your intellectual level on the Daily Mail comments section?

 

 

Or you could have just answered the question

 

 

[Alex 34913]

That reply oozes irony

[Renton 21393]

Okay CT, how about we clear things up about what type of Brexit you want. To make it easy for you, you've got three choices; top, middle, or bottom. I choose top BTW (also note that these are national figures, NE figures are relatively twice as bad).

 

 

 

[Renton 21393]

And here's another graphic CT might just understand. This is the EEA EFTA model a la Norway. What's not to like? Care to say CT?

 

 

 

 

[ewerk 30371]

Corbyn is pledging to vote against any deal that would mean a hard border in Ireland.

Which, by my reckoning, means he’d vote against his own proposal.

[Renton 21393]

Corbyn wants reunification. One way of solving the issue. Meanwhile a tax expert, tasked by government with costing CU options, has estimated the Max Fac proposal would cost companys an incredible 20 billion a year at a Brexit committee. This is on top of all the other disbenefits from non tariff barriers. Downing street have accused him of "speculation" in a CTesque riposte.

 

Oh, and remember that graph which showed UK EU trade was in decline? Turns out that was bollocks as well. 

 

 

 

 

[ewerk 30371]

Quote

The UK has lodged a "strong objection" to EU negotiators over plans to limit its participation in the Galileo satellite programme after Brexit.

In a document seen by the BBC, UK officials warn EU counterparts the scheme could cost an extra €1bn (£876m) without their continuing involvement.

Excluding the UK from Galileo, it says, contravenes the phase-one withdrawal deal agreed by both sides in December.

It also warns it will hinder wider post-Brexit security co-operation.

The European Commission says Brexit means the UK will have to apply to use the Public Regulated Service (PRS), a key element of the Galileo system, like any other non-EU country after its March 2019 departure.

A navigation and timing signal intended for use by government agencies, armed forces and "blue light" services, PRS is designed to be available and robust even in times of crisis.

Brussels says the UK cannot immediately have access to it when it leaves the European bloc because it will become a foreign entity and PRS is for EU member states only.

 

Shocking stuff, the UK outraged that after leaving the EU it can't benefit from an EU programme.

[Andrew 4721]

 

 

Quote

Quote

The UK has lodged a "strong objection" to EU negotiators over plans to limit its participation in the Galileo satellite programme after Brexit.

In a document seen by the BBC, UK officials warn EU counterparts the scheme could cost an extra €1bn (£876m) without their continuing involvement.

Excluding the UK from Galileo, it says, contravenes the phase-one withdrawal deal agreed by both sides in December.

It also warns it will hinder wider post-Brexit security co-operation.

The European Commission says Brexit means the UK will have to apply to use the Public Regulated Service (PRS), a key element of the Galileo system, like any other non-EU country after its March 2019 departure.

A navigation and timing signal intended for use by government agencies, armed forces and "blue light" services, PRS is designed to be available and robust even in times of crisis.

Brussels says the UK cannot immediately have access to it when it leaves the European bloc because it will become a foreign entity and PRS is for EU member states only.

 

Shocking stuff, the UK outraged that after leaving the EU it can't benefit from an EU programme.

 

How dare they treat us like any other non-eu nation!
 

[Dr Gloom 21847]

 

[Renton 21393]

Yeah, I saw that. BAMFU!

 

Ivan Rogers, our former EU ambassador until he resigned, made a very interesting speech yesterday. It's basically an outline of how the EU works, what our options are and what are the trade-offs, and how incompetent the government has been.

 

It's reported in the Guardian here. But, I'd strongly recommend reading the transcript in its entirety as its so informative. Available at http://eureferendum.com/documents/rogers speech.pdf.

 

Strangely, the only part of it the BBC has published is a completely out of context section on Galileo which paints the EU in a bad light.

 

At this stage I have to ask @Dr Gloom what the fuck is going on with the legacy medial regarding Brexit? Why are they not accurately reporting the most elementary of facts correctly if they report them at all? I'm finding the only way to understand what Brexit is is to actually perform semi-academic research into primary documentation, or read the Irish media. Obviously, most people can't be arsed to do this. Isn't this the MSM's job? 

 

 

[Alex 34913]

The BBC have done a fucking appalling job with regard to the facts like. Completely hand in glove with the government

[Alex 34913]

59 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

This country makes me sick at times

[Renton 21393]

16 minutes ago, Alex said:

This country makes me sick at times

 

I'm frankly worried in the direction it's heading. The sheer ignorance and lack of empathy exhibited by the likes of CT, who are being rampantly exploited by extreme right ideologues like JRM or political chancers like Johnson. And the media facilitation of this, as you say like the BBC, which I formerly respected.

 

I'm watching a documentary series on Netflix at the moment about the rise and fall of the Nazi party. I'm not yet comparing our society to theirs, but it's obvious lessons haven't been learned and the English public is not fundamentally different from that of Germany 1930s. 

 

Okay, that's probably over dramatic but the speed at which things are fucking up is alarming. Just six years ago we were celebrating the Olympics after Tessa Jowell won it. There was a palpable feel good factor despite the recession and I felt like the UK was at its international zenith. Six years of Tory government have since ripped the entire fabric of the UK apart imo, more so than I could ever imagined. I cannot tell you how much I loathe Cameron and those that followed. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Renton

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3859]

The United Kingdom of England and Wales.

[Alex 34913]

27 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I'm frankly worried in the direction it's heading. The sheer ignorance and lack of empathy exhibited by the likes of CT, who are being rampantly exploited by extreme right ideologues like JRM or political chancers like Johnson. And the media facilitation of this, as you say like the BBC, which I formerly respected.

 

I'm watching a documentary series on Netflix at the moment about the rise and fall of the Nazi party. I'm not yet comparing our society to theirs, but it's obvious lessons haven't been learned and the English public is not fundamentally different from that of Germany 1930s. 

 

Okay, that's probably over dramatic but the speed at which things are fucking up is alarming. Just six years ago we were celebrating the Olympics after Tessa Jowell won it. There was a palpable feel good factor despite the recession and I felt like the UK was at its international zenith. Six years of Tory government have since ripped the entire fabric of the UK apart imo, more so than I could ever imagined. I cannot tell you how much I loathe Cameron and those that followed. 

You really have to worry about what people will believe given the way they've lapped the shit that Gove, Johnson, Farage and co have fed them. Little or no accountability from the press/media bar on the fringes (in relative terms). You'd expect that from The Sun and The Mail but the BBC? Incredible really. The levels of contempt for anyone questioning 'the will of the people' is quite chilling at times. It already feels a bit like it's too late

[Meenzer 15432]

I'm pretty much resigned to it for a generation and more now, it'll take a completely different set of people with a completely different approach to make a difference to any of it.

 

No pressure on all of your kids like.

 

[Rayvin 5186]

The problems will just become more entrenched. The strange-hold on information will continue as they curtail the internet over time.

 

Ultimately, we get the shit our stupidity deserves.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Rayvin

[Andrew 4721]

When is everything meant to be done by?

[Renton 21393]

Framework for the EU-UK economic partnership, just published by DexEU.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710817/ECONOMIC_PARTNERSHIP_-_FINAL.pdf

 

At this stage it's hard to believe they're not just taking the piss. Literally nothing new here, just the soundbites from the pathetic mansion house meeting, put in a nice font.

 

I'm struggling to understand what's going on at this point, it's bizarre. 

 

 

[Meenzer 15432]

7 minutes ago, Andrew said:

When is everything meant to be done by?

 

Thought this was an interesting read, not only (but partly) answering your question too as it happens:

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/05/23/unofficial-monster-raving-loonies-decoding-the-brexit-customs-union-row/

[Dr Gloom 21847]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

Yeah, I saw that. BAMFU!

 

Ivan Rogers, our former EU ambassador until he resigned, made a very interesting speech yesterday. It's basically an outline of how the EU works, what our options are and what are the trade-offs, and how incompetent the government has been.

 

It's reported in the Guardian here. But, I'd strongly recommend reading the transcript in its entirety as its so informative. Available at http://eureferendum.com/documents/rogers speech.pdf.

 

Strangely, the only part of it the BBC has published is a completely out of context section on Galileo which paints the EU in a bad light.

 

At this stage I have to ask @Dr Gloom what the fuck is going on with the legacy medial regarding Brexit? Why are they not accurately reporting the most elementary of facts correctly if they report them at all? I'm finding the only way to understand what Brexit is is to actually perform semi-academic research into primary documentation, or read the Irish media. Obviously, most people can't be arsed to do this. Isn't this the MSM's job? 

 

 

 

i don't work for the BBC, so i can't speak for them. what else is being reported inaccurately that is troubling you so much? 

[Andrew 4721]

6 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Thought this was an interesting read, not only (but partly) answering your question too as it happens:

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/05/23/unofficial-monster-raving-loonies-decoding-the-brexit-customs-union-row/

 

Cheers, end of March 2019, that works.

 

I'll have about a year to decide if the smoking ruin of Britain is worth returning to or staying in NZ, excellent

[ewerk 30371]

16 minutes ago, Renton said:

Framework for the EU-UK economic partnership, just published by DexEU.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710817/ECONOMIC_PARTNERSHIP_-_FINAL.pdf

 

At this stage it's hard to believe they're not just taking the piss. Literally nothing new here, just the soundbites from the pathetic mansion house meeting, put in a nice font.

 

I'm struggling to understand what's going on at this point, it's bizarre. 

 

 

 There's absolutely nothing of substance in there.

[Renton 21393]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i don't work for the BBC, so i can't speak for them. what else is being reported inaccurately that is troubling you so much? 

 

Every single newspaper. Guardian least bad perhaps. But it's mainly the BBC. I know you don't work for them but thought you might have some insight into their recent decline. I'm talking the website, the news, and all their political programmes including QT. They're a fucking joke. 

[Renton 21393]

4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

Cheers, end of March 2019, that works.

 

I'll have about a year to decide if the smoking ruin of Britain is worth returning to or staying in NZ, excellent

Lucky bastard.