Renton 21393 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I do want us to enter into ever closer union with Europe to be honest, but I'm in a very small minority and don't expect to ever see it in my lifetime. The Britain I thought I lived in was diverse, good natured and had a constructive if slightly over-reaching influence on Europe. We lead from the sidelines in the EU, which suits the British way. Germany and France take the headlines, but we manipulate behind the scenes. And I think that's actually something we should be proud of. We should be proud as well of being part of the EU for what it is. I genuinely believe that the rest of the world looks on enviously at Europe, and that our attempts to pull away, if successful, will represent the start of the final decline of the European powers, before we're assimilated into something else in the future - something with which we have even less shared identity. The world has changed, and Britain can't go back in time. The EU is our best chance of preserving what we have. There - that's a load of emotive stuff about Europe aside from all the facts which people are apparently tired of. I agree with one fairly big caveat. I don't think the EU should ever have expanded beyond east Germany in the north (excepting Finland) and Italy in the south. The eastern bloc countries are culturally different to us, but more importantly they weren't ready for economic integration. Their inclusion has caused a lot of issues we have now economically and through freedom of movement. Can't rewind the clock now though. I don't see any prospect of Turkey joining the EU, just Leave lies. If it ever did happen, I'd be wanting Brexit myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanMag 0 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I wouldn't mind but he's a taxi driver ffs, he has a shit job, he doesn't even have a hack license. Taxi drivers are the most politically myopic fuckers on earth after Americans. Strangely though all the American taxi drivers I have travelled with seem alright. Now hold on a second.... I am totally accepting of generalizations about Americans and a lot of the time agree... HOWEVER, grouping myself and the rest of my countrymen along with CT is too much and I will not stand for it! but then again, he would probably vote for Trump is he was American... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I agree with one fairly big caveat. I don't think the EU should ever have expanded beyond east Germany in the north (excepting Finland) and Italy in the south. The eastern bloc countries are culturally different to us, but more importantly they weren't ready for economic integration. Their inclusion has caused a lot of issues we have now economically and through freedom of movement. Can't rewind the clock now though. I don't see any prospect of Turkey joining the EU, just Leave lies. If it ever did happen, I'd be wanting Brexit myself.I agree on the most poor countries. I've read that a single veto can prevent membership so I think even a consensus towards turkey joining would be stopped by several countries - Cyprus and Greece to name but two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Plus Turkey have distanced themselves politically from "the west" in recent years, what with Erdogan's authoritarianism and various spats with Germany/Merkel and all. I'd say the prospect of Turkish membership was much more likely five or ten years ago than now. Try telling that to the people who've bought into the xenophobic rubbish that Leave's been shoving through their letterboxes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 I agree on the most poor countries. I've read that a single veto can prevent membership so I think even a consensus towards turkey joining would be stopped by several countries - Cyprus and Greece to name but two. I'm not really interested or swayed by the Turkey thing, but it's naive to think that the likes of Cyprus or Greece will have any say, veto or not. Whatever the big boys want will happen and the likes of the smaller countries will be bribed or more likely told what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Now hold on a second.... I am totally accepting of generalizations about Americans and a lot of the time agree... HOWEVER, grouping myself and the rest of my countrymen along with CT is too much and I will not stand for it! but then again, he would probably vote for Trump is he was American... Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I'm not really interested or swayed by the Turkey thing, but it's naive to think that the likes of Cyprus or Greece will have any say, veto or not. Whatever the big boys want will happen and the likes of the smaller countries will be bribed or more likely told what to do. Not sure you appreciate how much Greece hates Turkey... Money wouldn't do it. They'd probably leave Europe themselves if Turkey was accepted against their will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Plus Turkey have distanced themselves politically from "the west" in recent years, what with Erdogan's authoritarianism and various spats with Germany/Merkel and all. I'd say the prospect of Turkish membership was much more likely five or ten years ago than now. Try telling that to the people who've bought into the xenophobic rubbish that Leave's been shoving through their letterboxes though. try telling that to the Turkish presidents special advisor who was on Newsnight last night. His interview was priceless. The whole country's in shock. Thought Dave was their best mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Not sure you appreciate how much Greece hates Turkey... Money wouldn't do it. They'd probably leave Europe themselves if Turkey was accepted against their will. Yep, in fact part of Greece's debt problem stems from their military spending on their borders wit Turkey. I've worked with academics from Turkey and the feeling is entirely mutual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 try telling that to the Turkish presidents special advisor who was on Newsnight last night. His interview was priceless. The whole country's in shock. Thought Dave was their best mate. "We're not going to go there just because you produce Cadbury chocolates and Maltesers, for god's sake." I like him. But seriously, from what I've seen anyone who isn't pro-Erdogan will tell you that their current regime is moving them further and further away from compliance, and it's kind of embarrassing to a lot of regular Turks how the people in charge seem to be struggling with the basics of diplomacy while doing so, never mind EU-compatible stuff like a free media and all. Apparently they're not great at realising that "treading on people's toes" and "getting your own way" tend to be mutually exclusive (unless your name is Putin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just looked on wiki there and I see Boris Johnson's full name is: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. WTF, de Ptfeffel? Why has more not been made of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32826 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 "> Sounds strangely familiar. I've been saying this for a while to the wife when the news is on, funny enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I'm surprised the best Prime Minister of his life time doesn't have CT's backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just looked on wiki there and I see Boris Johnson's full name is: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. WTF, de Ptfeffel? Why has more not been made of this? Ah good old anti-elitist, man of the people, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 The economist, one of the most respected economic publications I preferred it before it went high brow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-brexit-the-conclusion-c1f56ba4cb70#.k8xyi0rh8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Ah FFS. Right, that's me now firmly in the out camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 I'm surprised the best Prime Minister of his life time doesn't have CT's backing. On this issue I think I've got more in common with Corbyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44498 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 On this issue I think I've got more in common with CorbynThat and the Skechers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-kingdom/2016-06-21/please-leave tl;dr we should vote Remain if only to piss off the rest of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 An argument against democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Last poll of the referendum has remain on 44% leave on 45% My take is that a good chunk of the leave dross won't even bother voting. Probably too busy typing racist shite to realise they need a polling card to vote. My guess purely plucked from my arse is that the outcome will be remain 59% leave 41% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Ladbrokes odds 3/1 remain 8/1 leave That's a big difference on such close opinion polls. Guess "they" we're right, the votes being rigged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42129 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just looked on wiki there and I see Boris Johnson's full name is: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. WTF, de Ptfeffel? Why has more not been made of this? Look up his paternal grandfather and great grandfather- Osman Kemal and Ali Kemal respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Ladbrokes odds 3/1 remain 8/1 leave That's a big difference on such close opinion polls. Guess "they" we're right, the votes being rigged Clearly a sign up offer like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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