Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Apart from the Mirror and the Guardian which of the papers doesn't support the Tories? Like others on here, I've read a great deal about the NI border problem and I've yet to hear one possible workable solution that doesn't involve NI staying in the SM and CU. It's the one issue in the entire process that cannot be solved by any other means.  Well the Telegraph obviously does, but then they're running the story Renton is quoting... and the Guardian isn't. Not sure political allegiances are featuring on this one much.  Obviously I hope you guys are right, but we've been predicting the imminent demise of this government and various policies etc for fucking ages, and it just keeps soldiering on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 That election last year could end up proving hugely decisive here, amazingly. If she didn't have to rely on the DUP, I have no doubt in my mind that May would just cut NI loose - I guess the question becomes a matter of what Labour will do. I think I trust Corbyn to vote the right way himself on this issue but there are some worryingly pro-Brexit Labour MPs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30369 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Can this possibly pass without the DUP? Are there enough Labour rebels for it to happen? Would the DUP submit a motion of no confidence before it came to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 I think the vast majority of those who voted wouldn’t care less one way or another if Brexit didn’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34912 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Burn this traitor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21847 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: I think the vast majority of those who voted wouldn’t care less one way or another if Brexit didn’t happen. it was all worth it then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Can this possibly pass without the DUP? Are there enough Labour rebels for it to happen? Would the DUP submit a motion of no confidence before it came to that? Â There's no way in hell the DUP will back it, right? This has to be a line in the sand for them. Â I don't know how many pro-Brexit Labour MPs there were but we only need 9, don't we? Although I guess some would be cancelled out by Tory rebels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21847 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just now, Alex said: Burn this traitor! crush the saboteurs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just now, Dr Gloom said: it was all worth it then  I think most people think a democratic vote was given and that’s that. Nobody was expecting the 2 years of backlash from the elite to thwart the result.  But the bottom line is the average Joe in the street has probably moved on long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:  I think most people think a democratic vote was given and that’s that. Nobody was expecting the 2 years of backlash from the elite to thwart the result.  But the bottom line is the average Joe in the street has probably moved on long ago.  This isn't a two year backlash from the elite, it's just that you were fucking lied to. That's all it is.  The elite are falling over themselves to try to deliver this man. You realise the 'elite' are the government, right? Edited April 20, 2018 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30369 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 And the millionaires who bankrolled the leave campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  This isn't a two year backlash from the elite, it's just that you were fucking lied to. That's all it is.  The elite are falling over themselves to try to deliver this man. You realise the 'elite' are the government, right?  You realise all party’s backed remain?  From Gina Miller to Lord Adonis to Tony Blair it’s been the elite trying to thwart Brexit from day 1.  Im just saying, most voters don’t care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30369 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Â There's no way in hell the DUP will back it, right? This has to be a line in the sand for them. Â I don't know how many pro-Brexit Labour MPs there were but we only need 9, don't we? Although I guess some would be cancelled out by Tory rebels... I think there'd be about 4-7 Labour rebels. On the other side you'd have Clarke, Morgan, Soubry and Grieve and perhaps some other. I can't see how this happens with the DUP or an election. Edited April 20, 2018 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30369 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:  You realise all party’s backed remain?  From Gina Miller to Lord Adonis to Tony Blair it’s been the elite trying to thwart Brexit from day 1.  Im just saying, most voters don’t care that much. And who was backing leave? Just the average joe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:  You realise all party’s backed remain?  From Gina Miller to Lord Adonis to Tony Blair it’s been the elite trying to thwart Brexit from day 1.  Im just saying, most voters don’t care that much.  The three people you've mentioned have no political power with which to thwart Brexit. The Tories have all the political power, have an opposition party that is also supporting Brexit, and still can't fucking deliver the thing because it seems to be impossible. That is the reality CT. It's not a lack of political will, it's not a conspiracy - if it fails, it is solely because you were lied to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21847 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 it's all gina miller's fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Not bad for an immigrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34912 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:  I think most people think a democratic vote was given and that’s that. Nobody was expecting the 2 years of backlash from the elite to thwart the result.  But the bottom line is the average Joe in the street has probably moved on long ago. Nice try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018  Man of the people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 If all the Brexiters want to go around telling themselves that a shadowy cabal of political elites somehow thwarted this instead of acknowledging that they were woefully misinformed about the consequences of leaving (and in truth, I had no idea NI would scupper this either - all the more reason this should never have been a public vote), then I'm fine with it tbh. If that's what it takes for them to make peace with staying in the single market, let them have it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34912 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: If all the Brexiters want to go around telling themselves that a shadowy cabal of political elites somehow thwarted this instead of acknowledging that they were woefully misinformed about the consequences of leaving (and in truth, I had no idea NI would scupper this either - all the more reason this should never have been a public vote), then I'm fine with it tbh. If that's what it takes for them to make peace with staying in the single market, let them have it I guess. It's the same ones who divert all the north east investment away from Sunderland and towards Newcastle. It's perfect for them, when you think about it. It's a bit like Scotland voting to stay in the Union (then returning a load of SNP MPs), i.e. if they really got what they claim to want they'd have no fucker to blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  The three people you've mentioned have no political power with which to thwart Brexit. The Tories have all the political power, have an opposition party that is also supporting Brexit, and still can't fucking deliver the thing because it seems to be impossible. That is the reality CT. It's not a lack of political will, it's not a conspiracy - if it fails, it is solely because you were lied to.   Don’t be naive, these people have lots of political clout, particularly with their European masters. If everyone had simply got behind the democratic decision it would have been done and dusted by now.  But two two years of secret meetings in Brussels, high court rulings and unelected peers looking out for number one and here we are.  As with most things, Brussels and their puppets here are trying everything to overturn democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34912 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) You're so fucking obvious it's embarrassing Edited April 20, 2018 by Alex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just now, Alex said: You're so fucking obvious it's embarrassing  I have no idea what you mean but as long as I’m brightening your day I’m happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Â Well, fair enough CT. As I said, as long as you and people like you are prepared to accept the single market against a backdrop of this 'conspiracy', I have no issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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