Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4711]

You really are buying this gibberish aren't you

Come Friday I'll be pretty meh either way and looking forward to Rafas first signing

[ewerk 30370]

Is it the bloke whole forecast 1.5 million more on the dole when the Tories got in and went on to create 2 million jobs or the bloke who forecast the 2nd depression just as the economy begin to soar or the bloke who rides a hover board

 

 

Seeing as how the economy is soaring and we have two million more jobs then surely you'd need to be a moron to want to rock the boat?

[Christmas Tree 4711]

 

 

Seeing as how the economy is soaring and we have two million more jobs then surely you'd need to be a moron to want to rock the boat?

Not if you expect Europe to have more problems over the coming years and think the economy will continue to grow over the next 10, 30, 40 years if we leave.

[ewerk 30370]

You're basically a less informed version of this:

 

[Rayvin 5186]

That's from the Mail... Are they satirising their own readers?

[Meenzer 15432]

Ben Goldacre pretty much summed up the "reasonable and decent" case for remaining last night, so I might just point people at this the next time I get my ear bent about it all:

 

 

 

Why I am voting Remain.

by Ben Goldacre, aged 41.

 

A smaller democracy will not be “more representative”.

The UK government is no more under your control than the EU. Diluting your vote one in 65m or one in 500m amounts to the same thing: no control. You couldn’t get political agreement from the people in one family, one pub, or one bus. You can’t “vote them out”, you’ve never done that, stop pretending you can do it in the future. Politics is about compromise: terrible, soul-destroying, mature compromise with other people, most of whom are awful. Your local council don’t represent your views and values any better than your MEP.

 

Immigration is just going to happen.

In or out of the EU, there will be lots, and lots of immigration: bad luck if you don’t like that. We’re perfectly able to control non-EU immigration, right now, and yet no government ever does. They never will. This is not the fault of the EU, it’s more complicated than that. Deal with it. Immigration will never stop.

 

“Straining” schools, waiting lists, and hospitals are your fault.

This is not the fault of the EU. It’s your fault. It’s happened slowly. The UK has failed to build houses, failed to train hospital staff, failed to invest in the NHS, failed to build schools. Your country. Your UK. Your government. Your fault. Nobody else. The NHS is staffed by immigrants, they keep it running, they will save your life and build your house. Don’t try to blame them for things that are your fault.

 

The EU is a good shot at preserving peace.

Remember that news story about the British generals who think we should leave the EU because NATO preserves peace, not the EU? These are bad generals who only know about guns. Russia right now is an odd, aggressive country. But they didn’t show up at the Ukrainian border with tanks, out of the blue: they manufactured a social and economic pretext before they rolled in. A strong EU makes this kind of pretext harder to contrive. You want to be good close friends with all your neighbours, and their neighbours, as far as the eye can see. That’s how you hold a line that preserves peace: by sharing friendship, sharing trade, and sharing grumbles about crap admin in Brussels. You do not preserve peace by buying and using weapons.

 

Brexit use language that’s targeted at losers.

The Brexit campaign talk about “taking control”, about “building an optimistic future” for yourself. These are things you say to losers: to people who feel they have no control, or a gloomy future. It’s the language of crap self-help books in airport bookshops. You are better than that.

 

Countries come and go.

Right now, people talk about Eastern Europeans like they’re biologically destined to be parasites, because their countries are poorer, and some of their citizens travel for work. That could change, really fast. Polish people are not a biologically inferior race: they lived under communism for four decades, and now they’re catching up. Poland has the fastest growing economy in Europe (faster than Central Europe, faster than the EU-15). Warsaw is full of skyscrapers. Be nice. Make friends now. Cement those ties to a large, fast growing European economy with a rich cultural history.

 

Brexit will hurt the economy.

This means your children and neighbours. Stop pretending you don’t care. Just vote remain. It’s boring, there’s nothing awesome about it, but sometimes you have to take a break from useful productive work to stop idiots breaking things.

 

Ben Goldacre

www.badscience.net

 

 

Link: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cliex0NUsAALQru.jpg

[Renton 21393]

Roll on Independence Day!

This was literally the sum total of Johnson's argument yesterday. "Make tomorrow independence day, raaaaaaar!". The leave crowd were literally standing up, whooping, and cheering this mop haired idiot. It was like a Trump rally, it really was.

 

So depressing that some people's brains are impervious to rational thought and that pantomime jingoism wins them over. Especially those based in the NE, who have the most to lose and absolutely fuck all immigration issues to be concerned about. Sunderland, the home of Nissan, and a 97% white indigenous population, is the most eurosceptic city in the UK. Sunderland is near Boldon isn't it? Morons.

 

Ruth Davidson was very impressive yesterday, Sadiq Khan was very polished. Two politicians for the future I think.

[Meenzer 15432]

And yet apparently Remain are the ones indulging in Project Fear.

 

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/745531956125827074/photo/1

[ewerk 30370]

 

“We have to be careful about historical comparisons, but Albert Einstein during the 1930s was denounced by the German authorities for being wrong and his theories were denounced and one of the reasons of course he was denounced was because he was Jewish. They got 100 German scientists in the pay of the government to say that he was wrong and Einstein said ‘Look, if I was wrong, one would have been enough.’”

 

Who else but The Gover!

 

[Alex 34913]

CT's convinced me like. Definitely voting 'Remain' now.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

All I hear is project fear Crash for fucks sake.

 

A very detailed independent economic report I was reading last night.

 

Conclusion

 

Although the impact of Brexit on the British economy is uncertain, we doubt that Britain’s long-term economic outlook hinges on it. Things have changed a lot since 1973, when joining the European Economic Community was a big deal for the United Kingdom. There are arguably much more important issues now, such as whether productivity will recover. The shortfall in British productivity relative to its pre-crisis trend is still over 10%, so regaining that lost ground would offset even the most negative of estimates of Brexit on the economy. Based on assessing the evidence, we conclude that:

 

The more extreme claims made about the costs and benefits of Brexit for the British economy are wide of the mark and lacking in evidential bases

It is plausible that Brexit could have a modest negative impact on growth and job creation. But it is slightly more plausible that the net impacts will be modestly positive. This is a strong conclusion when compared with some studies

There are potential net benefits in the areas of a more tailored immigration policy, the freedom to make trade deals, moderately lower levels of regulation and savings to the public purse. In each of these areas, we do not believe that the benefits of Brexit would be huge, but they are likely to be positive

Meanwhile, costs in terms of financial services, foreign direct investment and impacts on London property markets are more likely to be short-term and there are longer-term opportunities from Brexit even in these areas

It is not likely that any particular region or regions of the country would be more adversely affected by Brexit than the country overall. Likewise, we do find support for the notion that Brexit would benefit some sectors more than others, but the range of outcomes for production / manufacturing industries is probably wider than for services

We continue to think that the United Kingdom’s economic prospects are good whether inside or outside the European Union. Britain has pulled ahead of the European Union in recent years, and we expect that gap to widen over the next few years regardless of whether Brexit occurs.

 

 

https://woodfordfunds.com/economic-impact-brexit-report/

 

 

Stop reading the hand wringing Guardian, have faith in this great country and get ready for......

 

 

[Alex 34913]

[Meenzer 15432]

God you're a horrible human being.

[ewerk 30370]

God you're a horrible human bean.

 

CTYP

[Meenzer 15432]

#ProjectFear

 

[Gemmill 44498]

An "independent" report commissioned by a billionaire hedge fund manager. [emoji38]

[Meenzer 15432]

 

Sounds strangely familiar.

[Gemmill 44498]

Imagine how many spackers will have been sucked in by OMG IT'S INDAPANDENCE DAY! [emoji38] Our retard in chief has swallowed it hook line and sinker for starters.

[Andrew 4721]

John Barnes has written a, pretty decent, article for the guardian this morning refuting Michael Goves assertion that he was voting Leave.

An entire campaign built on lies and half truths and they have the gall to talk about "prjoect fear".

 

I got a leaflet yesterday from leave about "Companies considering staying if we leave the EU". Another was of phrasing that being "Companies considering leaving if we leave the EU". It's total nonsense.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Still quivering under project fear, clutching your Guardian?

 

What about good old Markus Kerber, the leader of the German BDI? The leader of German industry.

 

"It would be very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on Britain in the event it votes to leave the European Union.

[Andrew 4721]

CT, out of curiosity, how many times do you have to be proven to be completely wrong, foolish even (not just on this, in general "Mike Ashley football genius" etc) before you just decide to keep your counsel for once?

[Renton 21393]

All I hear is project fear Crash for fucks sake.

 

A very detailed independent economic report I was reading last night.

 

Conclusion

 

Although the impact of Brexit on the British economy is uncertain, we doubt that Britains long-term economic outlook hinges on it. Things have changed a lot since 1973, when joining the European Economic Community was a big deal for the United Kingdom. There are arguably much more important issues now, such as whether productivity will recover. The shortfall in British productivity relative to its pre-crisis trend is still over 10%, so regaining that lost ground would offset even the most negative of estimates of Brexit on the economy. Based on assessing the evidence, we conclude that:

 

The more extreme claims made about the costs and benefits of Brexit for the British economy are wide of the mark and lacking in evidential bases

It is plausible that Brexit could have a modest negative impact on growth and job creation. But it is slightly more plausible that the net impacts will be modestly positive. This is a strong conclusion when compared with some studies

There are potential net benefits in the areas of a more tailored immigration policy, the freedom to make trade deals, moderately lower levels of regulation and savings to the public purse. In each of these areas, we do not believe that the benefits of Brexit would be huge, but they are likely to be positive

Meanwhile, costs in terms of financial services, foreign direct investment and impacts on London property markets are more likely to be short-term and there are longer-term opportunities from Brexit even in these areas

It is not likely that any particular region or regions of the country would be more adversely affected by Brexit than the country overall. Likewise, we do find support for the notion that Brexit would benefit some sectors more than others, but the range of outcomes for production / manufacturing industries is probably wider than for services

We continue to think that the United Kingdoms economic prospects are good whether inside or outside the European Union. Britain has pulled ahead of the European Union in recent years, and we expect that gap to widen over the next few years regardless of whether Brexit occurs.

 

 

https://woodfordfunds.com/economic-impact-brexit-report/

 

 

Stop reading the hand wringing Guardian, have faith in this great country and get ready for......

 

 

It's peculiar how you Brexiters are happy to cherry pick some reports or bits of reports and ignore all the evidence to the contrary, which massively outweighs those cherry picked reports, isn't it? I know, the experts have got it wrong in the past, blah blah. That's a bit like not trusting the weather forecast because Michael fish was wrong in 1987.

 

So go on, justify to me why you believe this particular investment manager and not all the other reports from the likes of the Economist, who have given this some proper independent academic analysis and consideration?

[Gemmill 44498]

Still quivering under project fear, clutching your Guardian?

 

What about good old Markus Kerber, the leader of the German BDI? The leader of German industry.

 

"It would be very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on Britain in the event it votes to leave the European Union.

OMG I'M WILL SMITH I'M GONNA PUNCH AN ALIEN IN THE FACE

[Alex 34913]

Like the look of the odds at the bookies atm. Let's hope they're right again.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

CT, out of curiosity, how many times do you have to be proven to be completely wrong, foolish even (not just on this, in general "Mike Ashley football genius" etc) before you just decide to keep your counsel for once?

Election 2010

Election 2015

Job growth under Tories......