Gemmill 44387 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Government's attempt to subvert democracy defeated by Dominic Grieve. Well played Tory rebels, this government are a fucking disgrace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Quite fucking right. If anything it helps the government’s hand as the EU know that any deal will have to be acceptable to parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15404 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Lads, turns out we took back THE WRONG KIND OF CONTROL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 The daily fail, who exactly are they backing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) So Frank Field and Kate Hoey are so rabidly anti-EU that they’ve voted to give a Conservative government even more powers. Just what’s the point in them being Labour MPs? Edited December 14, 2017 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Again, why wasn't he doing this shit as leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10734 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, ewerk said: Again, why wasn't he doing this shit as leader? Fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15404 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 He addresses it to an extent in the recent Richard Herring podcast (of all places ). Doesn't excuse him for not having been bolder, but fucking hell, when you see the state of our press (again this morning) you can understand why politicians end up running scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 David Davis not in contempt of parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10734 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Meenzer said: He addresses it to an extent in the recent Richard Herring podcast (of all places ). Doesn't excuse him for not having been bolder, but fucking hell, when you see the state of our press (again this morning) you can understand why politicians end up running scared. What does he say? Giz a summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, ewerk said: David Davis not in contempt of parliament. As expected. Thus setting the precedent that it is perfectly acceptable to lie to parliament. This is the sovereignty Brexiters want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Well he got a good telling off but what saved him was that he only used the phrase 'impact assessment' himself once. It was his failure to correct anyone else using the phrase that got him in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Which returns us to the fact that either the assessments haven't been done, or that they are so bad they have been buried. The former is criminally negligent, the latter is simply criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 So the EU have confirmed we can't renogiate past next October anyway do last nights vote was largely symbolic. We accept whatever shitty CETA like deal we get or we lump it leading to catastrophically hard Brexit. Wonderful. It's taken us 18 months to get to this point. How the fuck is a trade deal going to negotiated in the months from March to October, which obviously includes the summer holiday period? We are so fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 You would hope that a series of desired outcomes would be debated in parliament and then voted upon, as we went into negotiations. But given that no impact reports have been carried out, we have no information upon which to base our desired outcomes. Least competent British government of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rayvin said: You would hope that a series of desired outcomes would be debated in parliament and then voted upon, as we went into negotiations. But given that no impact reports have been carried out, we have no information upon which to base our desired outcomes. Least competent British government of all time? May has discussed her desired outcomes already in her speeches at Lancaster house and Florence. Problem is they are contradictory to the extent they are mutually exclusive and therefore literally unachievable. Just vague cake and eat it nonsense for the proles to lap up which the EU couldn't have been clearer they won't accept. And now it is confirmed parliament cannot amend them or event debate the wish list. Best guess, as Davis has admitted, is we are looking at a CETA type deal which will destroy our services exports. There won't be time for anything else. This will be a good deal for the EU though. As for the last point, categorically, yes. Edited December 14, 2017 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 That's why we need a sector by sector assessment though. To be able to weigh up which sectors will be sacrificed and which will be supported. We need to maximise what we can. Can a good trade deal really be agreed with just a general overview approach? It feels like that's where the government is driving from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: That's why we need a sector by sector assessment though. To be able to weigh up which sectors will be sacrificed and which will be supported. We need to maximise what we can. Can a good trade deal really be agreed with just a general overview approach? It feels like that's where the government is driving from... Irony here is that the UK were known for their insistence on impact assessments for relatively minor policy plans. Now apparently they don't matter. It's lunacy to take this approach, which is why I am many others just can't take in what is happening. But bottom line is, we've run out of time to do the necessary analysis and probably to strike all but the most rudimentary deal. Ffs it took 9 months to come to an arrangement on the first 3 points and even that isn't finished or fully agreed. There's a podcast on the Been called the leavocrats. It's old now, but basically it was a look into how the civil service will cope with Brexit. There was overwhelming consensus from the people that matter, those in the civil service, that they have an impossible task. And the reality is it looks much worse now than it did when this podcast was made (pre A50 being triggered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Renton said: Which returns us to the fact that either the assessments haven't been done, or that they are so bad they have been buried. The former is criminally negligent, the latter is simply criminal. There are no assessments man. Don't you think Whitehall mandarins haven't got anything better to do....Busy with their massive pensions and ranking local wine bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 26 minutes ago, Rayvin said: That's why we need a sector by sector assessment though. To be able to weigh up which sectors will be sacrificed and which will be supported. We need to maximise what we can. Can a good trade deal really be agreed with just a general overview approach? It feels like that's where the government is driving from... Stable bolted horse....Took cart with it apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 14 minutes ago, Renton said: Irony here is that the UK were known for their insistence on impact assessments for relatively minor policy plans. Now apparently they don't matter. It's lunacy to take this approach, which is why I am many others just can't take in what is happening. But bottom line is, we've run out of time to do the necessary analysis and probably to strike all but the most rudimentary deal. Ffs it took 9 months to come to an arrangement on the first 3 points and even that isn't finished or fully agreed. There's a podcast on the Been called the leavocrats. It's old now, but basically it was a look into how the civil service will cope with Brexit. There was overwhelming consensus from the people that matter, those in the civil service, that they have an impossible task. And the reality is it looks much worse now than it did when this podcast was made (pre A50 being triggered). They don't matter, I suppose, because they would be nothing but politically damaging for the whole thing. Starting to agree that we're fucked here. We need the government to fall apart basically now - each day that May staggers on, is another day lost for the whole project. We are going to Brexit, and it is going to be a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Park Life said: Stable bolted horse....Took cart with it apparently. That does seem to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21300 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Park Life said: There are no assessments man. Don't you think Whitehall mandarins haven't got anything better to do....Busy with their massive pensions and ranking local wine bars. DExEU has 330 full time staff. Seriously, what the fuck have they been doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Renton said: DExEU has 330 full time staff. Seriously, what the fuck have they been doing? Do you suppose that the reports do exist, and the government is just chancing getting away with not revealing it...? It would give the Tories the ability to make them work to their advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Renton said: DExEU has 330 full time staff. Seriously, what the fuck have they been doing? If my mate is anything to go by they gossip all day and organize leaving/birthday/bonus parties. No word of a lie they have fruit and pastries delivered in the morning which they all fight over. Edited December 14, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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