Europe --- In or Out

[Dr Gloom 22193]

Whatever you think of his lies and the complete lack of depth or substance to anything he says, you can't deny he can work a crowd. And if Trump can win the presidency....

[Gemmill 46192]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

Whatever you think of his lies and the complete lack of depth or substance to anything he says, you can't deny he can work a crowd. And if Trump can win the presidency....

 

A crowd of cunts, aye. 

[Dr Gloom 22193]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

A crowd of cunts, aye. 

 

They've already sat through Fox, Hammond and Davis. Even a set of cunts would need their spirits lifted after that.

[Renton 22038]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Whatever you think of his lies and the complete lack of depth or substance to anything he says, you can't deny he can work a crowd. And if Trump can win the presidency....

 

Fuck off man. CT's head is big enough already. 

[Renton 22038]

34 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

First of all, 7 people on here voted to leave. 

 

As for JRM speech (which I haven’t watched but get the jist from what you’ve said), simply seems the sort of stuff you get at most party conferences in fringe meetings.

 

As for the people negotiating the deal, they are only interested in facts a figures, not what some (non ministerial), MP says.

 

This is where I’m at with Brexit. If you strip away the social media faux rage, most normal people will be happy for a deal to be completed that doesn’t harm them, allows the country to continue to prosper and let’s all politicians get back to focussing on domestic policy.

 

I firmly believe we will end up with a deal that allows free access to the SM, gets round the customs issues and allows us to do our own FTS’s with the rest of the world. This will be good for us and good for the EU allowing them to crack on with their tighter union with the UK constantly holding them back.

 

I would then like some cross party support or a Royal Commission to finally sort out how we deal / fund the NHS and social care and stop it being a political football.

 

Obviously some of you come from a viewpoint that we won’t get a deal and it’s all going to fall apart. There’s no point arguing against that because you won’t change your view until it becomes apparent.

 

The greatest danger, as highlighted well this week, is letting John McDonnel anywhere near the treasury.

 

What we really need right now is a very good centre left government but that battles been lost, for now.

You can firmly believe what you want. There are loads of reasons what you want to happen technically can't. Not all to do with the EU either, as we are bound by WTO. There is literally no substance to any of what the Tories have said so far, nothing at all. 

[Gemmill 46192]

Worth signing back in to get a "this is where I'm at with Brexit" update from the slimmer of the month. Christ.

[strawb 4413]

Did he really say "allows the country to continue to prosper"...

[Gemmill 46192]

That was Hammond's crack yesterday too. "Labour are the enemies of prosperity". Who exactly does he think is prospering at the minute? 

[Gemmill 46192]

Where I'm at. I got two duck pizzas and a Toblerone. 

[ohhh_yeah 2991]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

Where I'm at. I got two duck pizzas and a Toblerone. 

 

Remix?

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4858]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

 

No one would be against that result but you realise that would involve keeping freedom of movement, paying into the EU, obeying EU regulations and being subject to EU courts?

 

Basically what we have now but without the ability to influence what happens in the EU and any of the benefits of EU programmes.

 

Well that’s where we differ. I believe we’ll end up with what I’ve stated without the extras you’ve added in. The bottom line remains that ending up with free trade is the logical best outcome for both parties. As is making that trade as easy as possible.

 

We’ll still end up paying for things we want to be part of (euratom ?? Etc) and maybe free movement of workers. I’m sure there may be a few other compromises but at the end of it all I think the average Joe won’t tell the difference, except we’ll be a more global, more successful economy.

[ewerk 31237]

You clearly have no idea how the single market works.

[Renton 22038]

30 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You clearly have no idea how the single market works.

 

He just believes the BJ "cake and eat it bullshit". Like millions of other Tory twats, he's in for a shock. The penny will one day drop.  

[Renton 22038]

CT, can you explain to me how we are going to trade with the rest of the world and still have frictionless, tariff free trade with the EU? Forget about why the fuck the EU would agree to this (being a protectionist after all), but how would that possibly work under WTO rules?

 

To be in the single market, you have to be in the EU or EU lite (EEA). Otherwise the best you can hope for is a bilateral deal, which the EU has little appetite for and would take years to negotiate. Then there's still the problem with non tariff barriers and the customs union (bye bye Nissan). And then there's the insoluble issue of Ireland.

 

Oh, and CT, are you even aware that when we become a third country we will automatically lose all the trade deals the EU has made with other third countries, and be back on WTO terms at best? 

 

You're like a delta class from Brave New World. Blissfully ignorant.  

Edited October 3, 2017 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4858]

46 minutes ago, Renton said:

CT, can you explain to me how we are going to trade with the rest of the world and still have frictionless, tariff free trade with the EU? Forget about why the fuck the EU would agree to this (being a protectionist after all), but how would that possibly work under WTO rules?

 

To be in the single market, you have to be in the EU or EU lite (EEA). Otherwise the best you can hope for is a bilateral deal, which the EU has little appetite for and would take years to negotiate. Then there's still the problem with non tariff barriers and the customs union (bye bye Nissan). And then there's the insoluble issue of Ireland.

 

Oh, and CT, are you even aware that when we become a third country we will automatically lose all the trade deals the EU has made with other third countries, and be back on WTO terms at best? 

 

You're like a delta class from Brave New World. Blissfully ignorant.  

 

 you patronising twat.

 

We will most likely end up in a new EU associate agreement. These have been used many times already with various countries on various terms. They are pretty straightforward to set up (compared to a free trade deal) and have already been discussed on both sides of channel.

 

Ireland will more than likely end up with some sort of special status.

 

Once the money is agreed this will all fall into place very quickly. In fact I predict that buy Jan / Feb next year the negotiation atmosphere will have totally changed for the better.

 

uncertainty will subside, the economy will boom and you’ll wonder why we didn’t do this years ago.

[Renton 22038]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 you patronising twat.

 

We will most likely end up in a new EU associate agreement. These have been used many times already with various countries on various terms. They are pretty straightforward to set up (compared to a free trade deal) and have already been discussed on both sides of channel.

 

Ireland will more than likely end up with some sort of special status.

 

Once the money is agreed this will all fall into place very quickly. In fact I predict that buy Jan / Feb next year the negotiation atmosphere will have totally changed for the better.

 

uncertainty will subside, the economy will boom and you’ll wonder why we didn’t do this years ago.

 

Oh? Give me some examples of these associate deals that have been done with various countries before then? News to me. What type of special status do you think NI will get that will appease the DUP, SF, EU, the republic, Scotland etc? CT, there has to be a hard border somewhere, it's impossible for there not to be. There's no point in burying our heads in the sand about this as the EU won't budge an inch on trade until we make workable proposals, which we can't, because there literally are no solutions acceptable to all stake holders.

 

What about losing all our extant trade deals in Marich 2019, which is going to happen. Fox has admitted we don't have any capacity to make new ones. It'll take decades to resolve. And, ateod, why do you think these deals will be better than what we have with the EU already? We're a much smaller market so where's the incentive? Plus we'll be desperate for a deal, it'll be a sellers market.

 

Oh, what the fuck is the point arguing with a brexiter, they have no answers. There are real difficult issues which can't be solved by meaningless platitudes, jingoism, and misguided belief in British exceptionalism. You're being played and you're too stupid to see it.

[Isegrim 9910]

28 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 you patronising twat.

 

We will most likely end up in a new EU associate agreement. These have been used many times already with various countries on various terms. They are pretty straightforward to set up (compared to a free trade deal) and have already been discussed on both sides of channel.

 

Ireland will more than likely end up with some sort of special status.

 

Once the money is agreed this will all fall into place very quickly. In fact I predict that buy Jan / Feb next year the negotiation atmosphere will have totally changed for the better.

 

uncertainty will subside, the economy will boom and you’ll wonder why we didn’t do this years ago.

And the Oscar goes to La La Land

[Gemmill 46192]

What is it about "some sort of special status" that you lads don't understand?! 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3998]

I like how China is the answer to our problems is China when their economy is due to collapse in the not too distant future due to the birth rate.

[The Fish 10978]

12 hours ago, ohhh_yeah said:

 

Remix?

 

 

 

I mean, you're a twat for giving birth to that earworm, but  nonetheless.

[Dr Gloom 22193]

9 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Oh? Give me some examples of these associate deals that have been done with various countries before then? News to me. What type of special status do you think NI will get that will appease the DUP, SF, EU, the republic, Scotland etc? CT, there has to be a hard border somewhere, it's impossible for there not to be. There's no point in burying our heads in the sand about this as the EU won't budge an inch on trade until we make workable proposals, which we can't, because there literally are no solutions acceptable to all stake holders.

 

What about losing all our extant trade deals in Marich 2019, which is going to happen. Fox has admitted we don't have any capacity to make new ones. It'll take decades to resolve. And, ateod, why do you think these deals will be better than what we have with the EU already? We're a much smaller market so where's the incentive? Plus we'll be desperate for a deal, it'll be a sellers market.

 

Oh, what the fuck is the point arguing with a brexiter, they have no answers. There are real difficult issues which can't be solved by meaningless platitudes, jingoism, and misguided belief in British exceptionalism. You're being played and you're too stupid to see it.

 

Stop being so defeatist and embrace the spirit of Agincourt, the Magma Carter and Waterloo. Our imperial history suggests we always win so stop talking Brexit down.

 

This argument is all the brexiteers now have, if you examine the (lack of) substance

[The Fish 10978]

45 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

Stop being so defeatist and embrace the spirit of Agincourt, the Magma Carter and Waterloo. Our imperial history suggests we always win so stop talking Brexit down.

 

This argument is all the brexiteers now have, if you examine the (lack of) substance

 

It's certainly a hot topic.

[Gemmill 46192]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

 

I mean, you're a twat for giving birth to that earworm, but  nonetheless.

 

I mean do you peasants genuinely not think that was the joke. I've clearly been off here too long. 

[ohhh_yeah 2991]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

I mean do you peasants genuinely not think that was the joke. I've clearly been off here too long. 

 

Whir!

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22193]

there goes the pink paper, talking down brexit again instead of letting the lion roar. 

 

‘Two-thirds’ of Hammond’s £26bn Budget war chest faces wipeout

 

Philip Hammond is facing what officials describe as “a bloodbath” in the public finances in his Budget next month as weak economic forecasts derail the government’s plans.

 

As much as two-thirds of the £26bn of headroom in the public finances that the chancellor created last year as a buffer for the economy through the Brexit period is likely to be wiped out after the government’s fiscal watchdog concludes its forecasts for growth have been too optimistic.

 

The Office for Budget Responsibility will publish on Tuesday a new analysis suggesting it has persistently over-estimated Britain’s productivity over the past seven years and will give a broad hint that it will rectify the situation with a more pessimistic Budget forecast. Slower growth in the forecast will limit deficit reduction and cut the size of the war chest that Mr Hammond put aside to smooth the Brexit transition.

 

This leaves him in an awkward position politically, since he is under increasing pressure to end the austerity cap on public pay, lower the burden of debt on students and build houses.

 

The OBR has already estimated that Brexit will hit the public finances to the tune of £15bn a year by 2020-21. Theresa May’s government, including the Eurosceptic ministers Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox, has not disputed these estimates.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/768843e8-a839-11e7-93c5-648314d2c72c