Dr Gloom 21801 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) No. Does that really sound like a pissed post to you? Genuinely interested. J69 has been playing the racist card for years now, I'm personally sick of it. Well it is was far from incoherent. Definitely one of your more aggressive posts though! Edited July 2, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I've said before that it's not just low paid jobs that are affected by Immigration. In my field salaries and contractor rates have risen less than they "should" have done in the last 10 years allowing for inflation mainly because of Indian immigration. However I don't blame the people themselves - I blame the companies who've exploited it to keep cost down - capitalism in other words. This also applies to farmers in Lincolnshire (via Tesco) and firms like SD. I'd also point out that a lot of the blatantly racist leavers are retired so on a personal level they can't justify citing wages as a good reason. Of course there's also concerned about housing/infrastructure but again it's not the immigrants' fault that we have had an abysmal housing policy for forty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Is that a fair assertion on that data? Are you happy for those people to be called racists in the true sense of the word? This lack of recognition of what are real issues for millions of people IS a huge problem. The liberal left intelligentsia have drifted further away from the disenfranchised more than the far right have, leaving the ground fertile for UKip. And yet still on this thread it's obvious the issue isn't even recognised let alone discussed. I've referred to this a lot in this thread. It's a big problem for Labour under Corbyn. JC is an old trot and will never win an election. Labour heartland has voted Leave/UKIP and has no connection with well-meaning lefties anymore. The great unwashed have revolted because no one on the left is hearing their concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Yet any Labour support with differing views to yours is ruining 'YOUR' party apparently? Michael Gove's policies appear to be in keeping with many of the things you're angry at Corbyn for not addressing. Is it time to switch sides? People who joined the party specifically to vote for Corbyn aren't labour supporters, they're Corbyn supporters. They've killed the party. Not my party any more, I've left. I was talking about people's concerns. I never offered a solution or stated where the issue ranked in importance. So you saying I should support Gove is a nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 No, I'm the one saying he calls anyone who disagrees with him a racist. It's an observation. He's called me racist before. This is what he said about the 27% who don't see immigration as a benefit: "It's all about getting rid of the brown people" Is that a fair assertion on that data? Are you happy for those people to be called racists in the true sense of the word? This lack of recognition of what are real issues for millions of people IS a huge problem. The liberal left intelligentsia have drifted further away from the disenfranchised more than the far right have, leaving the ground fertile for UKip. And yet still on this thread it's obvious the issue isn't even recognised let alone discussed. What's the "true sense" of racism? You don't need to be a curb stomping Nazi. Things like opposing affirmative action, or insisting that reverse racism is now a greater concern would fall into the same bracket as claiming immigrants can offer no benefits. It's clearly not as overt as the actual racially motivated abuse we've seen increase since the Brexit vote, but comes from the same fears, anger & jealousy some of our gutter press have stoked. Of course there are legitimate questions to ask about the sustainable levels of immigration the country should have to cope with an ageing population whose skills are being moved from trades to the call centre. But that is not what's happening when people say no immigration is good immigration. I've posted previously about the dangers of blaming everything on the racists myself. Greenwald's article I posted in it's entirity was particularly good on that. Claiming no immigration is good immigration is an ignorant view that it's correct to disabuse or ridicule though, rather than a huge part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 People who joined the party specifically to vote for Corbyn aren't labour supporters, they're Corbyn supporters. They've killed the party. Not my party any more, I've left. I was talking about people's concerns. I never offered a solution or stated where the issue ranked in importance. So you saying I should support Gove is a nonsense. Or maybe Corbyn's policies align more with those member's values than Blairite neoliberal shite? Sounds like you were always in the wrong party to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I've referred to this a lot in this thread. It's a big problem for Labour under Corbyn. JC is an old trot and will never win an election. Labour heartland has voted Leave/UKIP and has no connection with well-meaning lefties anymore. The great unwashed have revolted because no one on the left is hearing their concerns. Agreed. Which is why I found J69"s comment about blanket labelling these people racist so vile, and why I responded aggressively. It's the morning. I'm still sober, and I'm not going to apologise for that. It"s almost as bad as...... racism...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Or maybe Corbyn's policies align more with those member's values than Blairite neoliberal shite? Sounds like you were always in the wrong party to me. I was in the party that recognised it needed pragmatic change to get elected. If labour had stayed as you want it to, it never would have. And it won't now. A party in opposition is powerless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A tory lite in power isn't great either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A tory lite in power isn't great either. Politics is usually about choosing the least bad option. There's now no least bad option to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Agreed. Which is why I found J69"s comment about blanket labelling these people racist so vile, and why I responded aggressively. It's the morning. I'm still sober, and I'm not going to apologise for that. It"s almost as bad as...... racism...... It's not the first time, or even the second time that you have launched at someone in this thread. You're an angry man when it comes to politics and differing views to your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44265 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I've just heard some local Councillor on the telly refer to herself as "naturally self-depreciating". Fuck me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 It's not the first time, or even the second time that you have launched at someone in this thread. You're an angry man when it comes to politics and differing views to your own Naah, just you, and your attitude as it happens. If you can link me to an angry response to anyone else in this thread, feel free (CT doesn't count). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Just like immigrants don't count....? You're such a dirty racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) The refugees sit around the main square here drinking all day. Edited July 2, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Just like immigrants don't count....? You're such a dirty racist Classic example of what I mean. I don't even know what you're talking about, yet you call me a dirty racist. Grow up you idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The refugees sit around the main square here drinking all day. Dirty racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19863 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A mate of mine is a self employed sparky. He works a lot of hours and he has a lot of competition in the area. But his area is largely English lads not immigrants. In my own experience the company I work for has an MD who is Turkish and we have a couple of Romanians. They are skilled lads and know their bacon. Our industry us crying out for skilled and experienced people but since the crash in '08 we can't get people in so despite the odd immigrant here we haven't seen a hit on wages yet so I am lucky. For the past 8-10 years though most companies I've worked for (mostly the bigger ones) send through rebar work a speciality that appears to be dying here to India. Thankfully our gaffer doesn't. It's a total false economy as we usually spend more time correcting the shite. They have massively pushed the need to send it their as they're cheap and can turn it around very quickly and with the time difference through the night. But like i say it's false because it either needs loads of attention or redoing. But the people keeping tight controls of fees like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Classic example of what I mean. I don't even know what you're talking about, yet you call me a dirty racist. Grow up you idiot. Because it's far too easy to get a reaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You'd see a proper race war if half of Munich was suddenly non-white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Our trust is having to recruit nurses from India and South Africa this year because since the bursary was pulled we don't have enough student nurses. Yet another short sighted, money saving plot by the Tories that ends up costing more in the long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You'd see a proper race war if half of Munich was suddenly non-white. I'd imagine a lot of the older German's still have a bit of xenophobia lurking in the background, much like over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Because it's far too easy to get a reaction Ahh, you're playing the old it was a joke / wind up card are you? Forgive me if I don't find labelling people racists as particularly funny in any context. Not that I believe for a second your comments last night weren't entirely serious any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Morning! *reads last few pages* *leaves* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Now I'm not drunk can someone please explain why people who think immigrants are a problem for social cohesion and job prospects (disclaimer - I know that they aren't) are racist? I get that they're ignorant potentially, but I can see what Renton is saying here. On the other hand, if people believe this because they're suspicious of foreigners, that does tend towards racism for me. But the kind of racism you'd get all over the world without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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