Europe --- In or Out

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

And how and why are these people so desperate to leave France? 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

It's a fair comment but these are the consequences of shit diplomacy. You can't expect to be a total cunt to your neighbours and have them continue doing you favours.

So they're playing political games with people's lives. Doesn't sound like the progressive eu we all yearn for.

[ewerk 30409]

3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I don't mind taking in asylum seekers. I welcome them. I have a problem that they're suddenly attempting these crossings in record numbers. Not because there's suddenly more of them, but because suddenly after brexit the efforts to stop them have reduced.

So we basically try to fuck the French over on their fishing rights and the Australian nuclear deal and you expect them to do us any favours?

 

And there's not much historic about the numbers we're seeing, the numbers were nearly three times higher in the early 2000s.

[Rayvin 5189]

Just now, TheGingerQuiff said:

So they're playing political games with people's lives. Doesn't sound like the progressive eu we all yearn for.

 

Who said the EU was particularly progressive..? It's more progressive than Tory Britain but I wouldn't say it's anything other than centrist in a more general sense. Seems like a pretty routine choice for a centrist administration.

 

I don't think this is the gotcha moment you want it to be.

[ewerk 30409]

3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

And how and why are these people so desperate to leave France? 

Fuck knows, they're better treated over there than they are in the UK.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I'm generally pro-eu. I just think they've playing the cunt on this issue.

[Rayvin 5189]

It's France rather than the EU though. Nations are actually sovereign within the EU, despite what Farage thinks.

[ewerk 30409]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I'm generally pro-eu. I just think they've playing the cunt on this issue.

The UK has a lower acceptance rate for asylum seekers than any country in the EU. They're not the ones acting cunts.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

The UK has a lower acceptance rate for asylum seekers than any country in the EU. They're not the ones acting cunts.

I mean we're further away than the eu from the countries these people are running from. Personally if I was escaping a war torn country I'd probably go to the nearest safe haven. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I'd be interested to see the rates and how they relate to proximity of the countries people seek asylum from 

[ewerk 30409]

29 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I mean we're further away than the eu from the countries these people are running from. Personally if I was escaping a war torn country I'd probably go to the nearest safe haven. 

Proximity has nothing to do with the rate of acceptance. I’m talking about the percentage of applicants that are given protection.

[Renton 21451]

The number of asylum seekers hasn't increased, its actually decreased, they're just using more visible and desperate methods as other routes become unviable. Covid massively affected air flights, Brexit has enforced custom checks on lorries, two routes which were used previously. Each country within the EU is sovereign regards third countries, but all civilised countries are party to conventions on asylum put in place in the early 50s. What the EU try to do is spread the load of refugees throughout the union, which strikes me as being the most fair method. We want no part in that, well guess what? They don't owe us any favours.

 

France and Germany accept many more immigrants per capita than we do. But there's many reasons  asylum seekers want to come the UK. Part of it is language, family, and shared culture if they are from the empire. But mainly it's because the UK has allowed a black market economy to form with undeclared earnings, making it possible for these people to survive which they can't in continental Europe. So yeah, couple that with the fact we fucked up their countries in the first place, I'd say we as a country are pretty much to blame for this and European countries know it. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Renton

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

32 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Proximity has nothing to do with the rate of acceptance. I’m talking about the percentage of applicants that are given protection.

Aye and there's justification for a higher rate of rejections when you're further away. Are you desperately fleeing or are you paying a smuggling gang thousands of pounds to transport you half way around the world?

[ewerk 30409]

You do realise that the answer can be both?

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I think the most genuinely desperate people go to where they can and don't make premeditated nutjob channel crossings from a country where they're not in danger. I could get my head around risking your life leaving a war torn country desperately on an inflatable boat. I don't get leaving France on one. 

[Alex 34954]

1 hour ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

So they're playing political games with people's lives. Doesn't sound like the progressive eu we all yearn for.

Maybe the French are doing that to an extent, they’re certainly not alone though as it’s precisely what the UK government and much of the right wing press do with their scapegoating of these people. The former are trying to make it a criminal offence to help these people even in the most basic humanitarian way. I would think the coastline is very hard to effectively police. But even if there is some turning a blind eye then it’s an inevitable consequence of acting like absolute arseholes and attempting to renege on just about everything the UK had supposedly agreed to. Cooperation works both ways. The simplistic finger pointing is straight out of the Daily Mail handbook. 

[Alex 34954]

4 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I think the most genuinely desperate people go to where they can and don't make premeditated nutjob channel crossings from a country where they're not in danger. I could get my head around risking your life leaving a war torn country desperately on an inflatable boat. I don't get leaving France on one. 

I think you’re talking out of your fucking arse trying to get a few bites. 

[Alex 34954]

Although I might be giving you too much credit 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

Maybe the French are doing that to an extent, they’re certainly not alone though as it’s precisely what the UK government and much of the right wing press do with their scapegoating of these people. The former are trying to make it a criminal offence to help these people even in the most basic humanitarian way. I would think the coastline is very hard to effectively police. But even if there is some turning a blind eye then it’s an inevitable consequence of acting like absolute arseholes and attempting to renege on just about everything the UK had supposedly agreed to. Cooperation works both ways. The simplistic finger pointing is straight out of the Daily Mail handbook. 

 

imagine justifying letting people risk their lives because the tories are being cunts about brexit. I thought the left were the compassionate side?

[Alex 34954]

Aye, way too much credit apparently.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

And if the UK is so hostile to asylum seekers why are people leaving France on a fucking rubber ring to get here?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

I'm a believer in a Rodenberryesque future utopia, or at least I was, but it is probably even further away than Rodenberry predicted. You start of by creating blocks with FoM, which the EU pioneered. However, at this stage in our evolution we are simply too tribalistic and the reverse is actually happening, the resurgence of nationalism.

 

The idea of the EU is/was to create an economic zone of relatively homogenous prosperity which gradually expands. As poorer countries in Eastern Europe are absorbed, their standard of living will improve and so they become part of the collective. Unfortunately this is a very slow process, causes resentment from entitled fuckers in the extant union, and underestimates the ethnic and cultural heterogeneity for it to work. There's a reason most science fiction is dystopian, its because the authors of it have correctly understood human nature. In short, we're fucked in the medium term at least. I genuinely think I may have already lived through the best times the World has had to off in this millennium. 

Remember in Star Trek the earth was ravaged by a devastating world war before the good stuff came.

[Renton 21451]

1 minute ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Remember in Star Trek the earth was ravaged by a devastating world war before the good stuff came.

Something to look forward to.

 

[Monkeys Fist 42205]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Remember in Star Trek the earth was ravaged by a devastating world war before the good stuff came.

So, are you saying it’s unlikely I’ll get to do the Nasty with sexy green alien women? 
 

Devastated. 

[The Fish 10822]

7 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

So, are you saying it’s unlikely I’ll get to do the Nasty with sexy green alien women? 
 

Devastated. 

Depends if it's a Star Trek utopia, or a Marvel dystopia.