Rayvin 5223 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) The guardian has a more detailed article on the Nissan situation. The supply chain problems are being caused by global shortages of computer chips due to problems producing them, rather than import issues. Also, Nissan are claiming that Brexit has delivered them a competitive advantage because the deal sets out that from 2027, car batteries for all EU/UK cars will need to be produced in the EU or UK. Nissan happens to have a car battery plant right next door to it that supplies it exclusively. So that's allegedly their advantage over everyone else. What I'm confused about is what difference Brexit has made to this (I assume this battery policy is actually an EU directive) unless the UK government were the ones who insisted on it. Edited January 22, 2021 by Rayvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21954 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Renton said: Because there was an entire campaign lying saying the opposite which were more convincing? Partly because the media, collectively and individually, didnt do their job? Take the bus, the media fact checked the £350 million figure was an exaggerated gross figure rather than a net figure. Fine. But who gives a fuck whether its 350 or 200 million, it still sounds like a fortune either way. What the media never explained was that the loss of trade outweighed this by at least a magnitude, or that the payment to the EU amounted to a cup of costa a week each. Amd they rarely explained the benefits of membership (Remain also failed spectacularly on this score). The bloke made the wrong choice but has had the humility to admit it. I can respect that. You need to embrace the prodigal son to move forward. This guy isn't to blame, he was conned along with millions of others. The people to blame are the corrupt politicians and the media who were complicit in their lies. That £350m figure was immediately debunked by the other side, which put out plenty of its own scary warnings about the economic hit we would take. Brexit Fisherman chose to believe the wrong side. I'd feel sorry and pity for him if his stupid vote only affected him and his family. But it doesn't, does it? It affects me, you and our kids. Large sections of the media did vote leave’s work for them. I just get irritated (and admittedly defensive) by lazy claims that the media is a single entity when a sizeable chunk of it did the opposite. I am disappointed with the beeb too. They played their part in this. I just have less sympathy now for the people who fucked us all over with their votes than I had right after the referendum. People had a lot of time to figure this all out - two elections on top of the referendum. And the reason the likes of the Mail and the Sun exist is because there is a demand for it. English exceptionalism runs deep. A nationalist campaign appealed to more people in the country than I felt comfortable admitting existed. Were they sold a lie? Undoubtedly. But they lapped it up despite mounting evidence of the dangers and that’s on them. Anyway, I’ll leave it there. I had a few glasses of wine last night and was feeling argumentative. I don’t think we actually disagree a great deal. I just have become increasingly embittered with the majority of people who believed the bullshit and voted to put us here. Edited January 22, 2021 by Dr Gloom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10864 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Yeah, I'm struggling to have sympathy for the people who voted leave. Yes, they were lied to, but the slightest amount of critical thinking and common sense would have shown the claims by the Leave campaign to be bullshit. Part of me is actually enjoying the steady stream of regret coming from Leave voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Let's not kid ourselves that the odd leave voter here or there lamenting the situation is representative of all of them. I'd wager that same 40% that vote Tory still fundamentally believe this is a downside free exercise in reclaiming sovereignty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 As usual you have to factor in the proportion of tory voters who are over 65 so don't give a fuck about businesses or even the economic prospects of their children/grandchildren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21638 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Rayvin said: The guardian has a more detailed article on the Nissan situation. The supply chain problems are being caused by global shortages of computer chips due to problems producing them, rather than import issues. Also, Nissan are claiming that Brexit has delivered them a competitive advantage because the deal sets out that from 2027, car batteries for all EU/UK cars will need to be produced in the EU or UK. Nissan happens to have a car battery plant right next door to it that supplies it exclusively. So that's allegedly their advantage over everyone else. What I'm confused about is what difference Brexit has made to this (I assume this battery policy is actually an EU directive) unless the UK government were the ones who insisted on it. It's not Brexit benefit, Nissan would have had the same benefits 8n the EU. Brexit will still impact thir JIT supply chain but I'm guessing they've done the sums and the removal of tariffs keeps them competitive, plus the deal keeps us in close alignment in regulation in this sector. It still would have been better for them had we not left though. What I'm hoping is that "success" stories like this will encourage the tories to keep to level playing field rules on workers rights. If they are cut, the EU can reintroduce tariffs which would be disastrous for Nissan. So this is certainly a good new story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21638 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: That £350m figure was immediately debunked by the other side, which put out plenty of its own scary warnings about the economic hit we would take. Brexit Fisherman chose to believe the wrong side. I'd feel sorry and pity for him if his stupid vote only affected him and his family. But it doesn't, does it? It affects me, you and our kids. Large sections of the media did vote leave’s work for them. I just get irritated (and admittedly defensive) by lazy claims that the media is a single entity when a sizeable chunk of it did the opposite. I am disappointed with the beeb too. They played their part in this. I just have less sympathy now for the people who fucked us all over with their votes than I had right after the referendum. People had a lot of time to figure this all out - two elections on top of the referendum. And the reason the likes of the Mail and the Sun exist is because there is a demand for it. English exceptionalism runs deep. A nationalist campaign appealed to more people in the country than I felt comfortable admitting existed. Were they sold a lie? Undoubtedly. But they lapped it up despite mounting evidence of the dangers and that’s on them. Anyway, I’ll leave it there. I had a few glasses of wine last night and was feeling argumentative. I don’t think we actually disagree a great deal. I just have become increasingly embittered with the majority of people who believed the bullshit and voted to put us here. Aye fair enough, I do feel pretty much the same way but I don't know where bitterness will get us. We have to work with what we've got and just hope somehow things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35097 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 hours ago, NJS said: As usual you have to factor in the proportion of tory voters who are over 65 so don't give a fuck about businesses or even the economic prospects of their children/grandchildren. They had it tough though. Social mobility, free university education with grants, access to affordable housing, retiring in their 50s on final salary-based pensions and so on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10864 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Alex said: They had it tough though. Social mobility, free university education with grants, access to affordable housing, retiring in their 50s on final salary-based pensions and so on And they get to drink a nice bottle of Chateau de Chasselas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21638 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I've changed my mind about feeling sorry for that fisherman Mr Perkes. I didn't realise he was a Brexit activist. Fuck him. I hope he goes bankrupt and has live on boiled fish heads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35097 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 He’s tucked himself in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21954 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 i'm not saying anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30642 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Yet again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35097 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21954 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 hours ago, ewerk said: Yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21954 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 cracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30642 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I’m not so sure it’s an oversight. Good thread here on how the problems business are experiencing are by design rather than by accident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21638 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Coincidentally I've just read Richard North's blog and he says the same. Its mainly about why Nissan have managed to get a great deal, its because we're actually still in full regulatory alignment with the EU for automobiles, and making batteries here will mean we will be okay for Rules of Origin, preserving the export market whilst maintaining a strong domestic market. However, continental car manufacturers are still reliant on imported batteries from Asia meaning they will be blocked importing to the UK based on the same RoO. Nissan have played a blinder here, but are the exception. Worth a read. http://eureferendum.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 They were probably chosen as a flag bearer to be used as a success while everyone else was screwed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Yes, that's basically it. Nissan's "competitive advantage from brexit" is that everyone else got fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21638 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, NJS said: They were probably chosen as a flag bearer to be used as a success while everyone else was screwed over. Naah, I don't think that's fair. The automotive rules are pretty much global now, divergencein this market makes no sense at all. Nissan have planned on this outcome since 2017, and have brought battery manufacturers to the North East in anticipation. They would still have been completely fucked with no deal though, which half the mackem halfwits were so desperate for. As I've said, this is only maintained with LPF so I'm hoping its a massive carrot for this government to maintain workers rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35097 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: cracking Crackers, Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30642 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Don’t worry, the Express has got it figured out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21954 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 “Clever” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17285 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Andrew Rawnsley touches on that very point in this piece, where he gets a large percussion tool out of its box and strikes a steel pin squarely upon its specially strengthened upper surface.. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/24/bill-for-boris-johnson-brexit-is-coming-punishingly-steep?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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