Europe --- In or Out

[Renton 21640]

Logic.

 

 

 

[Alex 35103]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

You can. The referendum sets the mandate, the GE decides which party should carry it out, acting within the bounds of the mandate.

 

In fact, it's a GE which completely confuses the issues, and will very likely resolve the square root of fuck all. 

Boris Johnson delivering getting Remain done I can live with 😂

[Gemmill 44971]

Reading the responses to this, it doesn't sound like Brexit Britain is about to turn on Johnson in an election. "Not his fault" seems to be the main thrust. 

 

 

[ewerk 30647]

Another for the Priti Patel highlights reel. Customs requirements between NI and GB are 'hypothetical situations' and don't warrant any discussion. Aye, not like this is going to affect real people. But I guess that's one advantage of being a sociopath.

[ewerk 30647]

Sammy Wilson sharp as a tack.

 

[Gemmill 44971]

 

The opposition openly not wanting an election is not a good look. 

 

Also not a good look from RLB: eyebrows in the middle of your forehead. 

 

 

[NJS 4389]

Some of the polls look depressing for Labour so I can understand the hesitancy but they were a lot worse last time.

 

I don't think Johnson will be as shit as May at campaigning but then again I think he's more instinctively disliked by people as well.

 

I think it will come down to how people who still think there's a chance of remain vote - if too many vote for the lib dems then the Tories will romp home imo.

[Gemmill 44971]

The thing is though, if you delay and he gets his deal through, then he runs as the man that delivered Brexit and he probably ends up with a majority.

 

If you delay and you manage to block the deal, he runs as the man who was thwarted by Parliament and he probably ends up with a majority. 

 

The only way forward is for an election now. Its fraught with danger and he might end up with a majority anyway but its the best option. 

[ewerk 30647]

RLB and that one from North Shields really are depressingly void of any charisma, intelligence or political nous. 

[ewerk 30647]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

The thing is though, if you delay and he gets his deal through, then he runs as the man that delivered Brexit and he probably ends up with a majority.

 

If you delay and you manage to block the deal, he runs as the man who was thwarted by Parliament and he probably ends up with a majority. 

 

The only way forward is for an election now. Its fraught with danger and he might end up with a majority anyway but its the best option. 

It's simply a case of are there enough votes in Parliament for a second referendum. If not then a GE is the only way forward.

[Gemmill 44971]

Whatever happens, it's my nutjob Brexiteer mother's 70th at the start of November. I'm definitely proposing a toast to still being in the EU. Cannot fucking wait.

[NJS 4389]

20 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

The thing is though, if you delay and he gets his deal through, then he runs as the man that delivered Brexit and he probably ends up with a majority.

 

If you delay and you manage to block the deal, he runs as the man who was thwarted by Parliament and he probably ends up with a majority. 

 

The only way forward is for an election now. Its fraught with danger and he might end up with a majority anyway but its the best option. 

One of the reasons I'd favour an election after it's "sorted" is that it could then be more of a "normal" election which I think suits Labour - if theres still too many people voting over Brexit then it favours the Tories both ways (staunch leavers and bitter remainers voting LD).

[Rayvin 5223]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

One of the reasons I'd favour an election after it's "sorted" is that it could then be more of a "normal" election which I think suits Labour - if theres still too many people voting over Brexit then it favours the Tories both ways (staunch leavers and bitter remainers voting LD).

 

Not sure the bitter remainers will go back to Labour if Brexit is done.

[NJS 4389]

33 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Not sure the bitter remainers will go back to Labour if Brexit is done.

Well then the "vote lib dem, get a tory government" pov applies more than ever given their current position.

Edited October 24, 2019 by NJS

[Rayvin 5223]

8 minutes ago, NJS said:

Well then the "vote lib dem, get a tory government" pov applies more than ever given their current position.

 

Indeed. But as middle class, generally better off people, I think they can handle that.

 

The great tragedy of this, IMO, is that it's going to destroy the relationship between the socially conscious middle class and the working class. To the detriment of the latter only.

[Gemmill 44971]

 

 

 

[Gemmill 44971]

:lol: Fancy recording this, watching it back, and still putting it out there. 

 

 

[Gemmill 44971]

Fucking Javid, the actual chancellor, standing up in the House and saying that Labour caused "not only a national banking crash but a global banking crash". He sounds like fucking Count Duckula as well. 

 

The little careerist cunt:

 

https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

 

[Phil 6]

4 hours ago, ewerk said:

It's simply a case of are there enough votes in Parliament for a second referendum. If not then a GE is the only way forward.

I've never understood the remain stance of a second referendum.  There is no way the leave campaign will accept a second referendum that is anything other than leave no deal or leave with this deal.

 

What is the colour of the sky on your planet?  Think about it.  Leave won, the follow up question can only be "how".

 

To suggest you can overturning the original vote with a narrower leave option vs remain is laughable.  The outcome would be ignored and the Brexit party would run in the next GE picking up a lot of protest votes. 

 

Wake up and smell the coffee.  You lost accept it.  If you truly want to stop no deal, stop blocking every option on the table.

 

The next election will be a hung parliament and the king makers will be either the Lib Dems or the Brexit party.  Remain are playing a very risky game.   Foolish if you ask me when you factor in they are banking on Corbyn.

 

 

[ewerk 30647]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

I've never understood the remain stance of a second referendum. 

There are many things in this life that you don't understand, Phil.

[Renton 21640]

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

If you truly want to stop no deal, stop blocking every option on the table.

 

Remain haven't blocked anything Phil. May's deal was blocked by Leave (ERG and DUP). Johnson's deal has passed but it needs more scrutiny and the application of amendments if necessary. Remain haven't blocked Johnson's deal, Johnson has.

 

Perhaps if Leave had negotiated a deal that actually respected the whole of the electorate things would have been different. I'd suggest the slim mandate indicated we should stay in the CU and SM. I'd have accepted that, so would the country, and we could have moved on.

 

But no, May went straight to a hard Brexit with her red lines, and ever since the ERG have been pushing for an ever harder Brexit, with their preference clearly being no deal. Most the country don't want this. Maybe this is what you need to understand, Phil. 

[Renton 21640]

Meanwhile Johnson has yet again shown to be an outright liar over his claims no customs forms need to filled out in Ni. What type of idiot would you need to be to support this cunt? 

[Rayvin 5223]

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

I've never understood the remain stance of a second referendum.  There is no way the leave campaign will accept a second referendum that is anything other than leave no deal or leave with this deal.

 

What is the colour of the sky on your planet?  Think about it.  Leave won, the follow up question can only be "how".

 

To suggest you can overturning the original vote with a narrower leave option vs remain is laughable.  The outcome would be ignored and the Brexit party would run in the next GE picking up a lot of protest votes. 

 

Wake up and smell the coffee.  You lost accept it.  If you truly want to stop no deal, stop blocking every option on the table.

 

The next election will be a hung parliament and the king makers will be either the Lib Dems or the Brexit party.  Remain are playing a very risky game.   Foolish if you ask me when you factor in they are banking on Corbyn.

 

 

 

I can't speak for all of us but my stance with it has been that since the Tories saw fit to interpret the result of a slender victory for leave as an opportunity to push for the pretty much most extreme version possible, I have been quite happy to respond to that flagrant abuse of power by looking for an opportunity to go totally the other way. Many remains MPs seem to have done the same.

 

In fact, I remember one of the Tory rebels stating as he voted for Mays deal, that this was the last chance the ERG fuckheads had to vote for a deal before he and others went full remain. So that's what happened more or less.

 

Now, granted we didn't expect the Tory party to actually side with the psychopaths, but they have at least been restrained. Anyway, the reason that we would insist a remain option on the table at a referendum is because the other two options (No deal and the surrender deal) are horrific  and there is no evidence at all that they had majority backing at the referendum, given that neither was remotely discussed.

[Rayvin 5223]

And for what it's worth, I would take no deal over Johnson's deal. The latter does pretty much all of the same damage but more slowly. Would be preferable to go "shock and awe" on this given how limited the average voters attention span is.

[Gemmill 44971]

Kuennsberg in No. 10 for a hastily arranged interview with Johnson apparently. Election time?