Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Ant said:

i'm so far passed giving a fuck now, from a purely short term personal view any sort of extension or this deal going through would immediately make my life a ton less stressful 

 

 

 

I think this is where a lot of people are coming from now - I saw the guardian reference a poll that said 54% of people now back a deal over any other alternative. I doubt they know what's in the deal, what it means for them, or anything other than the fact that it "ends Brexit" - but that's where a lot of people are.

 

I think on balance that this would chance over the course of a constructive referendum campaign, but it's still a concern.

[ewerk 30266]

As a Labour MP, whether you're for or against Brexit a defeat for Johnson tomorrow would be massively electorally damaging for him. To back his deal is highly likely to mean another five years of Tory rule. It's completely unconscionable to do that.

[wykikitoon 19894]

9 minutes ago, Ant said:

i'm so far passed giving a fuck now, from a purely short term personal view any sort of extension or this deal going through would immediately make my life a ton less stressful 

 

 

Deal or no deal, I really couldn't care less now.  Beyond caring now.  Sick of hearing about it.

[Rayvin 5183]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

As a Labour MP, whether you're for or against Brexit a defeat for Johnson tomorrow would be massively electorally damaging for him. To back his deal is highly likely to mean another five years of Tory rule. It's completely unconscionable to do that.

 

And so ofc, John Mann comes out and says he's voting for it and more than 9 others will also.

 

If that's true, we're fucked. I think we could get away with 7.

[Gemmill 44398]

It's easy to dismiss this stuff as conspiracy theory, but if Labour won't back a second referendum amendment and won't threaten to remove the whip from supporters of the deal, it becomes difficult not to believe that Corbyn just wants this all to go through so he can have his election. 

 

John Mann is saying more than 9 Labour MPs will back the deal. Based on most projections, that would be enough to get it through. Letwin's amendment becomes incredibly important if that's the case, but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Labour didn't whip in favour of it. 

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, wykikitoon said:

Deal or no deal, I really couldn't care less now.  Beyond caring now.  Sick of hearing about it.

 

You're free not to care as long as you vote the right way if somehow it comes back to a vote. I mean indeed, there's nothing any of us can do about it presently anyway.

[Rayvin 5183]

Just now, Gemmill said:

It's easy to dismiss this stuff as conspiracy theory, but if Labour won't back a second referendum amendment and won't threaten to remove the whip from supporters of the deal, it becomes difficult not to believe that Corbyn just wants this all to go through so he can have his election. 

 

John Mann is saying more than 9 Labour MPs will back the deal. Based on most projections, that would be enough to get it through. Letwin's amendment becomes incredibly important if that's the case, but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Labour didn't whip in favour of it. 

 

I don't think Corbyn wants to hand Johnson this victory, but at the same time it's clear that Brexit isn't the most important issue in the room for him.

 

If it goes through, Labour will get spanked at a GE though, I don't understand why he can't see that.

[Gemmill 44398]

It's cos he's both dim as fuck and terribly advised.

[Renton 21311]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

As a Labour MP, whether you're for or against Brexit a defeat for Johnson tomorrow would be massively electorally damaging for him. To back his deal is highly likely to mean another five years of Tory rule. It's completely unconscionable to do that.

 

This with bells on. Mann has stated that more than 9 labour rebels will vote this through. Using the FT prediction, this would lead to a majority of 1 for Johnson. These cunta need to be threatened with losing the whip. 

 

But Corbyn....

[Renton 21311]

Mann also saying "more fool them" if parliament vote to reduce workers rights. How thick is this cunt? Doesn't he know he is handing parliament over to the most right wing tory party in living memory? 

 

We are heading towards the worst outcome imaginable here. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Renton

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

Mann also saying "more fool them" if parliament vote to reduce workers rights. How thick is this cunt? Doesn't he know he is handing parliament over to the most right wing tory party in living memory? 

 

We are heading towards the worst outcome imaginable here. 

 

What is even Mann's agenda in this, seriously? What the fuck is he trying to prove?

[Rayvin 5183]

Corbyn:

 

"I believe in the power of persuasion rather than the power of threat. I will ask all labour MPs to vote along with the party in opposing any deal which damages rights and protections in our society or drives us into the arms of Donald Trump."

 

So he's going to try and persuade them to vote against the deal by appeals to their left wing nature. It all hangs on the extent to which he's able to do this I guess.

[Renton 21311]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Corbyn:

 

"I believe in the power of persuasion rather than the power of threat. I will ask all labour MPs to vote along with the party in opposing any deal which damages rights and protections in our society or drives us into the arms of Donald Trump."

 

So he's going to try and persuade them to vote against the deal by appeals to their left wing nature. It all hangs on the extent to which he's able to do this I guess.

 

I think that's yesterday's quote tbf.

 

I don't like the principle of deselection. But in this case it is entirely justified. All people like Mann or Flibt care about is keeping their MP job. If they are deselected, they will sharp lose those jobs in any case. This is the persuasion they need. 

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

I think that's yesterday's quote tbf.

 

I don't like the principle of deselection. But in this case it is entirely justified. All people like Mann or Flibt care about is keeping their MP job. If they are deselected, they will sharp lose those jobs in any case. This is the persuasion they need. 

 

You're right, they just want to continue as career politicians. It's disgraceful. Even some Tories have been brave enough to risk that in favour of the national interest. How they can't see what's coming if this deal goes through though is just unbelievable. They won't survive it. Labour will be smashed at a GE and they will be de-selected one way or another. Momentum will make sure of it. And on this occasion, I sincerely hope they do.

[Renton 21311]

This is labour's last chance for me. Fuck this up, and they can get fucked. 

 

Downing street have said they will release the economic analysis of this deal at the "appropriate time". Which is after the vote, naturally.  

[ewerk 30266]

Mann isn't standing at the next election so he's not bothered by the threats. He's a long time Eurosceptic simply interested in getting out showing no concern for how we do it or the effect it will have on the working class.

[Renton 21311]

Just now, ewerk said:

Mann isn't standing at the next election so he's not bothered by the threats. He's a long time Eurosceptic simply interested in getting out showing no concern for how we do it or the effect it will have on the working class.

 

Well let's hope he's talking shit about his colleagues then.

[Rayvin 5183]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Mann isn't standing at the next election so he's not bothered by the threats. He's a long time Eurosceptic simply interested in getting out showing no concern for how we do it or the effect it will have on the working class.

 

Ah, that'd be why. Great. So that's him and Hoey with one final blow before they bow out. Mann -at least- represents a constituency that voted 68% leave. Hoey still the far worse culprit in this. What was Vauxhall, something like 70% Remain?

[Rayvin 5183]

Looking at Hoey's twitter actually, I'm not convinced she'll vote for this. Seems very DUP friendly.

[Rayvin 5183]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/john-mcdonnell-expects-labour-mps-to-hold-firm-on-brexit-deal

 

McDonnell seems to think Labour can hold together.

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

Excellent thread. Right up @Renton street. 

[Gemmill 44398]

Sarah Champion (Lab) has emailed a constituent to say it's this deal or no deal so I'm voting for this deal. So she's lying directly to her constituents AND voting to make them worse off. No one can tell me she doesn't deserve to be deselected. 

[Alex 34846]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/john-mcdonnell-expects-labour-mps-to-hold-firm-on-brexit-deal

 

McDonnell seems to think Labour can hold together.

What else is he going to say though? 

[Renton 21311]

16 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Sarah Champion (Lab) has emailed a constituent to say it's this deal or no deal so I'm voting for this deal. So she's lying directly to her constituents AND voting to make them worse off. No one can tell me she doesn't deserve to be deselected. 

 

The so-called "spartans" (why do these tory pricks give themselves such ridiculous names?) have made it clear they will push for no deal after the year's transition anyway if an FTA doesn't materialise. An FTA in 5 years is at the limits of possibility.

 

So she's doubly wrong. It's no this deal or no deal, and this deal will also probably lead to no deal. The stupid cunt. 

[Gemmill 44398]

Steve (the cunt) Baker is milking it, not saying which way he'll vote. He knows, like Farage, that no one is gonna give a flying flamingo what he thinks about anything once this is over. I mean fucking Francois was headed into Number 10 earlier. That man is a fucking bona fide dipshit and he's somehow become the face of Brexit (he's Brexitface).