Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Gemmill said:

The DUP and Sinn Fein have both rejected it.

 

In other news, the Scottish Court has delayed a decision on ordering Johnson to send the letter/ruling that someone else can send it until 21st October. 

 

Basically the dickhead now has a gun to his head - either you obey the law and send it, or come Monday 21st the courts will take control. 

 

He's clearly got some kind of gambit. Sounds a little like it could be to try to override the legitimacy of Parliament with the legitimacy of the referendum.

 

And it's great that the DUP have rejected it but once Johnson gets hold of them I'm less sure they'll resist.

[ewerk 30266]

Nah they won’t buckle. The only reason they backed his proposal was because they knew they could veto it before it came into effect but after we’d left. This idea removes that power from them.

[Gemmill 44398]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

He's clearly got some kind of gambit. Sounds a little like it could be to try to override the legitimacy of Parliament with the legitimacy of the referendum.

 

And it's great that the DUP have rejected it but once Johnson gets hold of them I'm less sure they'll resist.

 

The thing is, it's becoming increasingly apparent that Cummings is not a genius. He's a baldy little virgin who thinks he's cleverer than everyone else. Every briefing from the "senior Downing Street source" (aka Cummings) about how they can do this, that or the other, is comprehensively dismantled in minutes by actual lawyers. 

 

Whatever he comes up with for the 19th, the fact remains that the Benn Act is the law. In the event that he tries to subvert it, the court will order that someone else can sign the letter, and it'll be incumbent upon Parliament to remove him from office. If he refuses to send the letter, there'll be more resignations on the Tory side, and it'll be Johnson, Cummings and the dickheads in the ERG stood trying to take everyone on. 

 

This won't go the way the bald virgin has dreamed it up in his wank fantasies. 

[Rayvin 5183]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

The thing is, it's becoming increasingly apparent that Cummings is not a genius. He's a baldy little virgin who thinks he's cleverer than everyone else. Every briefing from the "senior Downing Street source" (aka Cummings) about how they can do this, that or the other, is comprehensively dismantled in minutes by actual lawyers. 

 

Whatever he comes up with for the 19th, the fact remains that the Benn Act is the law. In the event that he tries to subvert it, the court will order that someone else can sign the letter, and it'll be incumbent upon Parliament to remove him from office. If he refuses to send the letter, there'll be more resignations on the Tory side, and it'll be Johnson, Cummings and the dickheads in the ERG stood trying to take everyone on. 

 

This won't go the way the bald virgin has dreamed it up in his wank fantasies. 

 

I agree on that tbf, but I am curious as to what it is they think they can do.

 

I remain more concerned about a deal happening than anything else. Was always the real danger.

[Rayvin 5183]

I suspect he's going to resign tbh, possibly off the back of his Queen's Speech being voted down, thus opening up the trap for Labour to walk into.

 

If he does, the GE needs to happen later rather than sooner, and a people's vote needs to occur first. But Labour will take the bait.

[Gemmill 44398]

I very much doubt he'll resign. He doesn't need parliament to be convened to do that anyway, he would just set his little lecturn up and deliver some horse shit speech. There's danger in having Parliament convened as it allows a response. 

 

Who fucking knows, it'll all be leaked before the date anyway. 

[Sonatine 11309]

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/10/election-wont-end-brexit-crisis/599551/

[Rayvin 5183]

 

If this is true, Johnson is fucked. So I think he's lying - unless he can somehow still manage to keep Farage on board so that they don't cannibalise each other.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5183]

37 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/10/election-wont-end-brexit-crisis/599551/

 

I mean yes - I think on here at least we're pretty consistent on an election not solving anything. For me it needs to be a referendum. But an election solves nothing - it will be a remainer parliament with a Brexit government, once again (if the polls are anything to go by)

[Renton 21311]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

If this is true, Johnson is fucked. So I think he's lying - unless he can somehow still manage to keep Farage on board so that they don't cannibalise each other.

 

If he went into a pact with Farage on a no deal Brexit ticket he will lose 50 to 70 moderate MPs before a GE, as well as millions of moderate conservative voters. Employing Cummings ad his advisor and chief of staff was a huge gamble which I hope will backfire disastrously badly. 

[ewerk 30266]

Downing Street have of course already distanced themselves from Green’s comments.

[RobinRobin 11138]

14 hours ago, Rayvin said:

But Labour will take the bait.

[Gemmill 44398]

 

It is jarring watching Blair handle Neil and leave him looking like a bairn repeating soundbites, compared with the performance of the current generation of politicians on the same show. Just through the deployment of intelligence and logic. Neil has got nothing. 

[Isegrim 9733]

It’s telling that the headline from the bbc itself is just the question but doesn’t include a hint to the answer

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

Good thread. But if Hammond is saying all this now, it's hard not to be fucking furious with him for keeping his mouth shut until now.

 

I mean I know he was something of a dissenting voice in May's cabinet, but that voice barely got above a whisper. 

[Rayvin 5183]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

Good thread. But if Hammond is saying all this now, it's hard not to be fucking furious with him for keeping his mouth shut until now.

 

I mean I know he was something of a dissenting voice in May's cabinet, but that voice barely got above a whisper. 

 

I get the feeling that Hammond is a bit of a political introvert but you're right.

[ewerk 30266]

He's a Tory is what he is.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

Apparently Nissan are getting rid of their night shift so that’s a massive number of their Sunderland workforce out of a job. We’re preparing for “Brexit Demand” at work. Buckle in, everyone.

[Renton 21311]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

Good thread. But if Hammond is saying all this now, it's hard not to be fucking furious with him for keeping his mouth shut until now.

 

I mean I know he was something of a dissenting voice in May's cabinet, but that voice barely got above a whisper. 

 

All this stuff was published. I've posted some of the graphs on this thread from the OECD, IFS, treasury, BoE, the economist which all showed any trade gains were dwarfed at least ten fold by loss of frictionless trade with the EU and loss of FoM. In particular the hit to the NE may be as bad as 18% GDP as Sunderland is just beginning to find out. 

 

Nobody gave a shit, not least the journalists of this country who are supposed to hold the government to account. Evidence based policy had a stroke when Cameron became PM, it's well and truly dead now. 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

Cadwalladr must feel like she's going mental at times. 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

"Third in the polls and you're gunning for an election....?!" 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Gemmill

[Alex 34846]

3 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Apparently Nissan are getting rid of their night shift so that’s a massive number of their Sunderland workforce out of a job. We’re preparing for “Brexit Demand” at work. Buckle in, everyone.

Tbf, it’s what they voted for 

[ewerk 30266]

 

[Rayvin 5183]

The fucking stupid thing about that is that if Nissan goes, Sunderland becomes an even more impoverished shit hole than it already is, and those leave voters become more angry, and more prone to nationalistic fervour. Anything to make them feel better about themselves.

 

So as much as it might be satisfying to watch the silly bastards burn in the flames of their own choices, it's not really good for the country long term because they lack the emotional responsibility to take ownership of their mistakes.