zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Renton said: We were promised green pasteurs after Brexit. This was never possible in reality, it was always going to be damage limitation. May is a proven xenophobe, her red lines made that damage much worse than it had to be. Johnson is a populist, he doesn't give a shit about the EU either way. That is a catastrophe for us. Yup! and neither of them were elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 We may as well vote for Lord Buckethead. Probably wouldn’t be any worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Corbyn also hasn't covered himself in glory as we know. It is quite dismal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Rayvin said: Corbyn also hasn't covered himself in glory as we know. It is quite dismal. Yeah. Can’t vote for him, I probably could vote Labour if someone else was running it who I could relate to. But Corbyn the same as all others .. a snake who changes his mind and policies like the wind.. to stay as leader. I mean for instance.. on the website below haha.. and refused to go into one tonight. Yeah tactical but still .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Yes but a general election tonight ran the risk of Boris just throwing us out without a deal.. I mean would you trust Boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I don't think tonight counts at all. It's in his interests to have a GE at the time of maximum advantage, and on Boris' timetable is not it. After all the shit Remainers have had to put up with in terms of tactical bastardry from the other side, it's nice to see Corbyn finally step up on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Yes but a general election tonight ran the risk of Boris just throwing us out without a deal.. I mean would you trust Boris? Yeah as I said.. was tactical, I get it, but the wording in that policy.. they believe so strongly about getting into power to make changes for the good of the people.. then passed at the first opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, zerosum said: Yeah as I said.. was tactical, I get it, but the wording in that policy.. they believe so strongly about getting into power to make changes for the good of the people.. then passed at the first opportunity. Yeah but probably because if they did it now there's a very real chance it would make people's lives a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I think if Boris can't get No Deal over the line before October, and then we have an election, JC will be PM. The Brexit Party will finish off Boris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Yeah but probably because if they did it now there's a very real chance it would make people's lives a lot worse. Brexit aside, I honestly don’t think Corbyn will make anyone’s lives any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, zerosum said: Brexit aside, I honestly don’t think Corbyn will make anyone’s lives any better. Why? I read his whole manifesto and it looked solid to me. I'm fairly well educated on economics to my mind at least, and also can see that Tory austerity has literally ripped the country apart (as I still believe it to be the primary cause of Brexit). Corbyn would have some job on his hands not to improve on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On that note. Time for sleep. Night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Rayvin said: Why? I read his whole manifesto and it looked solid to me. I'm fairly well educated on economics to my mind at least, and also can see that Tory austerity has literally ripped the country apart (as I still believe it to be the primary cause of Brexit). Corbyn would have some job on his hands not to improve on that. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, zerosum said: Fair enough. Goodnight man but do feel free to let me know your reservations on Corbyn at some point, I'm curious. And I'm not going to just shout you down as I hope you know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11138 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 7 hours ago, ewerk said: It would be an incredibly bad look going into an election divided. Either way they need a collective PLP decision and stick to it otherwise it could dog them throughout the campaign. That's what Johnson is relying on, i.e. that Corbyn will say something stupid, put some of his less strident supporters offside, and split the opposition vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser 1204 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 It may have been highlighted many pages ago and I've just stepped in late to the party, but for those who actually want to leave the European Union (not Europe) then surely from a negotiating point you want to position yourself so that the other party has a cliff to fall off too? By taking no deal off the table then you're offering the EU the upper hand. At that point they know that the negotiating is on their terms, otherwise no Brexit. I don't actually think Boris genuinely wants to leave without a deal, but he is playing a good bluff. The way in which this whole debacle is being played out is highly undemocratic. You had a majority vote which isn't being honoured due to a minority of people who were not elected to govern making that decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44397 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chaser said: It may have been highlighted many pages ago and I've just stepped in late to the party, but for those who actually want to leave the European Union (not Europe) then surely from a negotiating point you want to position yourself so that the other party has a cliff to fall off too? By taking no deal off the table then you're offering the EU the upper hand. At that point they know that the negotiating is on their terms, otherwise no Brexit. I don't actually think Boris genuinely wants to leave without a deal, but he is playing a good bluff. The way in which this whole debacle is being played out is highly undemocratic. You had a majority vote which isn't being honoured due to a minority of people who were not elected to govern making that decision. No mate. You don't hold a gun to the country's head as a negotiating tactic. You try to get a deal. It's highly irresponsible, and rather than calling it undemocratic, you should be thanking the MPs that are working to take no deal off the table - it would be a fucking catastrophe for this country. Don't buy into the bullshit that this is weakening our position. It's an utterly fucking reckless approach, taken by men that stand to lose nothing if it goes wrong, whilst you and I and the rest of the country would be left picking up the pieces for years. What's more, taking us out with no deal wouldn't be the end of it. We'd be back at the negotiating table immediately trying to work out the future relationship while the country burned. As far as any politicians can be called "heroes", the ones that are fighting to take no deal off the table at the minute fit the bill. Edited September 5, 2019 by Gemmill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 7 hours ago, zerosum said: Yeah as I said.. was tactical, I get it, but the wording in that policy.. they believe so strongly about getting into power to make changes for the good of the people.. then passed at the first opportunity. Because they’d be giving Johnson his best chance of winning. It’s the most sensible option if they actually want to win the next GE to not have one ASAP on his terms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19893 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Gemmill said: No mate. You don't hold a gun to the country's head as a negotiating tactic. You try to get a deal. It's highly irresponsible, and rather than calling it undemocratic, you should be thanking the MPs that are working to take no deal off the table - it would be a fucking catastrophe for this country. Don't buy into the bullshit that this is weakening our position. It's an utterly fucking reckless approach, taken by men that stand to lose nothing if it goes wrong, whilst you and I and the rest of the country would be left picking up the pieces for years. What's more, taking us out with no deal wouldn't be the end of it. We'd be back at the negotiating table immediately trying to work out the future relationship while the country burned. As far as any politicians can be called "heroes", the ones that are fighting to take no deal off the table at the minute fit the bill. Superb Gem Babes, superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just going to add to Gem's post - what is it that leavers even think a good deal would be. I genuinely don't think anyone has a clue. The EU has given us all deal options it can agree to, and they mirror the arrangements with various other countries. They have also made clear that they can't give us special treatment as it would be in breach of their other agreements. So at any point the UK could go to them and ask for Canada or Norway and we'd get it. No Deal isn't needed for that. What exactly do leavers think he is going to achieve? That somehow, with the threat of No Deal, they will agree to give us single market access without FOM? This will never, ever happen. The idea of a good deal that can somehow be negotiated is a fallacy. All he would do is come back with something very similar to May's deal with a few words moved around and hail it as a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19893 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Smoggie here just said he wants a no deal brexit. Like a fucking Turkey voting for Christmas man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Nice to see Leavers weighing in here though btw, the standard of discussion has improved as a result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19893 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Today's front pages. They're fucking embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rayvin said: So at any point the UK could go to them and ask for Canada or Norway and we'd get it. No Deal isn't needed for that. What exactly do leavers think he is going to achieve? They didn’t exactly give Cameron that when he went to negotiate a better deal in the first place. If they had been so willing to give up like that to us, maybe the referendum would never have happened? That’s partly the problem, they should listen to individual countries concerns within the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15407 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, zerosum said: They didn’t exactly give Cameron that when he went to negotiate a better deal in the first place. If they had been so willing to give up like that to us, maybe the referendum would never have happened? But those options mean leaving the EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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